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greg
03-21-2006, 01:26 PM
Check out this link concerning the lawsuit Pepsi has against Coke. It is based on a commercial that pits Powerade against Gatorade.
What do you think?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188617,00.html

[ 03-21-2006, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: greg ]

iluvsurge220
03-21-2006, 02:21 PM
I haven't looked at it, but I see from the web address that it is from fox news. Fox news,in my opinion is one of the most biased news networks on television so I would try to find this story from more news networks to make sure it is true.

iluvsurge220
03-21-2006, 02:23 PM
After reading it, I personally think the whole thing is just silly. For one thing, if I remember correctly it isn't even a race. The cart with ten bales on it just starts moving while the one with 50 just sits there. It never actually shows the one with ten crossing a finish line or anything.

the saint
03-21-2006, 03:28 PM
All the news on tv is biased one way or another, depends on which way you view the world as to how biased they are.
I have not heard or seen anything about this other than this particular article so I tend to agree that it more than likely is false.

[ 03-21-2006, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: the saint ]

Mr Nethead
03-21-2006, 03:31 PM
That's pathetic. Pepsi should be ashamed of themselves. They're tying up our judicial system with a lawsuit over a stupid commercial. Big whiney babies. It makes me sick!

popologist
03-21-2006, 03:38 PM
translation:

powerade is catching up with gatorade.

and vault is catching up with mountain dew.

greg
03-21-2006, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by the saint:
All the news on tv is biased one way or another, depends on which way you view the world as to how biased they are.
I have not heard or seen anything about this other than this particular article so I tend to agree that it more than likely is false. Are you actually saying that this is a made up news article? Do you really think that FOX news or CNN would make somethihng up like that? Whether you guys think the media is biased or not is irrelevant. World wide recognized news organizations do not make up stories completely out of the Blue(unless it is political season).
The story is legitimate.

Mr Zabe
03-21-2006, 04:16 PM
Gatorade Sue Powerade (http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-power21.html)

I posted this earlier this morning. Seems like there is nice a war for the Spring and Summer sports drink peek business.

(Sorry, I forgot it was an AP story. It was in my local paper and I posted it in the previous Gatorade thread that many do not look at. smile.gif )

[ 03-21-2006, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Ram0n C0keah0lic
03-21-2006, 04:20 PM
I can't believe it!

They harassed and insulted Coke in their ads almost all their existance, and now they're complaining just because the Powerade Option ads says that Option has less calories than Gatorade???

Mr. Nethead is right... what a bunch of big whiney babies...

BTW... sadly and unfortunately sueing Coke is becoming a sport... a lot of people is practicing it: Raquel Chavez (the store owner), Roberto Mendoza Ralph (the gay employee), Big Cola, Pepsi... what a bunch of jerks...

[ 03-21-2006, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Ramón Coca-Colero ]

CStoreCatMan
03-21-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by popologist:
translation:

powerade is catching up with gatorade.

and vault is catching up with mountain dew. You must be joking. Gatorade owns approximately 85% of the isotonic market. I don't see how Powerade at a mere 15-20% (at best) is catching up! And do we really need to say this again...Vault has yet to prove itself. It's been in the market only a month tops (in my area) and so far isn't breaking any records. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Coca-Cola company...but your opinions are without basis.

CStoreCatMan
03-21-2006, 05:08 PM
By the way...here's actual text from the article and what Gatorade is upset about...

***The "drag race" is followed by footage showing Powerade Option has 10 calories while Gatorade has 50 calories, and voice-over saying, "Powerade Option. The low-calorie sports drink."

The lawsuit argues Coca-Cola is sending consumers this message: "Power Option not only has fewer calories than Gatorade, but also is superior" as a sports drink. It's a claim Gatorade's manufacturer says is clearly not true.

In fact, the Pepsi affiliate claims the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau previously decided Coca-Cola could compare Powerade Option with Gatorade only if it discloses that the product does not provide the "energy replacement benefits provided by Gatorade," according to the court filing.***

Therefore, Powerade Option is claiming its just as good (or better) than Gatorade because it has lower calories...but Gatorade chimes in by saying it cannot possibly accomplish the same "energy replenishment" as Gatorade because 10 calories cannot do that. Anyone who truly understands calories, carbohydrates, etc. knows that Gatorade is correct with that argumment. It it over the top? Whiny? Maybe...I'm sure Coke would do the same thing if roles were reversed though!

the saint
03-21-2006, 06:51 PM
At the time I read the article it was the only one that I had seen. I had not heard any info thru work about this lawsuit, since then I have been instructed on " how to answer the question regarding the lawsuit should the need arise". LOL I got a 10 minute speech about this and all they would have had to say was " tell them you have no comment". Any ways I wasn't knocking the story I said that I hadn't heard anything so I tend to think that more than likely it was false.

Mr Zabe
03-21-2006, 06:58 PM
Saint,
Did anyone ask you about this while you working today? Just curious. I don't understand how the suit is for only $75,000.

the saint
03-22-2006, 10:05 AM
No, I don't think that anyone will either, the suits just wanted to make sure that no one says anything about it. We are to tell anyone "no comment", and tell them to call Pepsi's office for any information they want.
The $75,000 is why I was assuming that it was false, why would any company waste their money on legal fees for what they will earn in a couple of hours at the most. Who knows maybe the 75 grand was a misprint on the original source and it was supposed to have some more zeros...uh oh I CANNOT COMMENT ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE CALL YOUR LOCAL PEPSI DISTRIBUTOR FOR ANY INFORMATION ON THIS, THANK YOU.

Mr Zabe
03-22-2006, 10:43 AM
I never read your last message. LOL
I saw nothing and I know nothing.LMAO

greg
03-22-2006, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by CStoreCatMan:
By the way...here's actual text from the article and what Gatorade is upset about...

***The "drag race" is followed by footage showing Powerade Option has 10 calories while Gatorade has 50 calories, and voice-over saying, "Powerade Option. The low-calorie sports drink."

The lawsuit argues Coca-Cola is sending consumers this message: "Power Option not only has fewer calories than Gatorade, but also is superior" as a sports drink. It's a claim Gatorade's manufacturer says is clearly not true.

In fact, the Pepsi affiliate claims the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau previously decided Coca-Cola could compare Powerade Option with Gatorade only if it discloses that the product does not provide the "energy replacement benefits provided by Gatorade," according to the court filing.***

Therefore, Powerade Option is claiming its just as good (or better) than Gatorade because it has lower calories...but Gatorade chimes in by saying it cannot possibly accomplish the same "energy replenishment" as Gatorade because 10 calories cannot do that. Anyone who truly understands calories, carbohydrates, etc. knows that Gatorade is correct with that argumment. It it over the top? Whiny? Maybe...I'm sure Coke would do the same thing if roles were reversed though! Good Post

popologist
03-22-2006, 02:02 PM
clearly, pepsi feels a little threatened, or they wouldn't even bother with this.

i think the success of coke zero, vault, and dasani flavors has put pepsico on red alert.

besides, pepsi shows a diet coke can getting crushed in its diet pepsi commercials, when... in reality, diet coke almost sells twice as much as diet pepsi... and is hot on the heels of pepsi's flagship brand itself. so... what's fair is fair. tongue.gif


Originally posted by CStoreCatMan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by popologist:
translation:

powerade is catching up with gatorade.

and vault is catching up with mountain dew. You must be joking. Gatorade owns approximately 85% of the isotonic market. I don't see how Powerade at a mere 15-20% (at best) is catching up! And do we really need to say this again...Vault has yet to prove itself. It's been in the market only a month tops (in my area) and so far isn't breaking any records. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Coca-Cola company...but your opinions are without basis. </font>[/QUOTE]

[ 03-22-2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: popologist ]

Ram0n C0keah0lic
03-22-2006, 02:10 PM
This Pepsi sueing Coke thing is for example, like a friend who likes to make jokes to everbody, but when somebody makes him a joke, he gets angry...

Just a metafore :D

[ 03-22-2006, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Ramón Coca-Colero ]

CStoreCatMan
03-22-2006, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by CStoreCatMan:


In fact, the Pepsi affiliate claims the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau previously decided Coca-Cola could compare Powerade Option with Gatorade only if it discloses that the product does not provide the "energy replacement benefits provided by Gatorade," according to the court filing.***
Here's the heart of the issue. Coke ignored the ruling of the BBB...so IMO Gatorade has a case!

CStoreCatMan
03-22-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by popologist:
clearly, pepsi feels a little threatened, or they wouldn't even bother with this.

in reality, diet coke almost sells twice as much as diet pepsi... and is hot on the heels of pepsi's flagship brand itself. so... what's fair is fair. tongue.gif
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Its a no brainer to say that sales vary by region...so what's happening in one part of the country may not be happening elsewhere!! For example, here in SoCal, Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi sales can vary depending whether you're in a grocery store or convenience store. And even depend on what account you're in...its not always the same. (And they're pretty close here...neither is outselling the other by a big margin). Also, Aquafina outsells Dasani 3 to 1 in this market and Vault still hasn't done much of anything here. Sales depend on way too many variables to make general statements like "Diet Coke sells twice as much as Diet Pepsi..."

Mr Zabe
03-22-2006, 04:24 PM
Well said. I agree.

SURGE
03-22-2006, 05:11 PM
CStoreCatMan- I'm assuming popologiest is refering to national sales where he is 100% right. Diet Coke is overtaking Pepsi for the number #2. Currently in 2004 (newest data) Pepsi had 11.5% down .4% while DC was at 9.6% up .3% volume-wise thats a 5.00% increase. The year before Pepsi lost .7% and DC gained .4%- this is a consistant trend. This isn't because Pepsi is doing a bad job but simply because full-callorie stuff is losing volume (see Classic). So yes DC will overtake Pepsi soon undoubtly. DC does sell nearly double Diet Pepsi not including the fact that DC brand extensions dwarf D Pepsi ones in volume. Though Diet Pepsi is seeing good growth as well.

Coke Zero is hovering near the top-10 as well which would be bad news since the current #10 is Sierra Mist (which is flat growth wise- compared to Zero).

Desani vs. Aquafina Coke is playing catchup but closing quickly especially in multi-packs.

As far as VAULT goes its too early to tell but test areas have shown long-term growth and a 14+% 20oz share in C-stores which translates into a nearly equal loss in Dew share- it remains to be seen if this can be replicated nationally.

CStoreCatMan
03-22-2006, 06:47 PM
Surge...the national numbers are averages. And national numbers are irrelevant when dealing with specific markets. Do you think my buyer at Chevron cares about national numbers? NO. He cares about what's happening HERE. And those national averages are way off when speaking to my market and many others I'm sure. By the way...if you looked at national 20oz sales from say 5-6 years ago...MTN DEW was #1!! Over Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, and everything else. But in my market, that was completely off. How would that sales pitch have gone if I went to a customer saying Dew was #1!!

There are markets where Pepsi has a 60-70 share and Coke is almost non existent. Some markets are a vice versa of that. The point is sales vary by region no matter what the national averages show.

I make it clear that I'm speaking to my Southern California market when I make statements like "Aquafina outsells Dasani 3 to 1"...I'm not just throwing it out there like that's how it is all over.

Water - any junk water will sell in a 24pk when priced at $3-$4. Single serve is where the rubber meets the road. And in that respect, IN SOCAL...Aquafina kills Dasani. I admit it may not be that way in other markets...but here that's a fact.

Vault vs. Dew - in my market so far...not even a threat. And here's a real life example from Pepsi in Athens, Georgia...Pepsi reps put up Mtn Dew signs wherever they saw Vault signs (no they didn't pull down Vault signs)...and guess what? Mtn Dew is UP 34% there! Hmm...

SURGE
03-23-2006, 01:11 AM
I'm not arguing that your right in you're region but frankly national numbers make alot more sence on an internet site that covers people from across the nation than do local observations that are most likely accurate but hardly scientific.

Looking back up the posts it seems that we are talking about popologiest's assertion that Pepsi is feeling some heat- I don't see how you can assert that you're local numbers have any real bearing on this topic when compared to the national numbers we have- which are what Pepsi and Coke are looking at to determine strategy. Obviously every market is different and must be treated as such still the only way to decide if a company is on the hotseat or not is to look at the big picture- anything else leaves open too much room for interpretation.


By the way the lawsuit was settled- Cokei s dropping one ad and modifying the voice-over in another.

Mr Zabe
03-23-2006, 06:42 AM
Coke and Pepsi Settle (http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-power23.html)

Here is the news story from my local news paper.

popologist
03-23-2006, 08:24 AM
those are EXACTLY the numbers i was referring to.

nationally (and internationally) diet coke far outsells diet pepsi... and is gaining fast on pepsi.

however, coke zero's success may slow that advance a little bit... since it's likely to eat up a larger % of diet coke's sales than pepsi or diet pepsi.

also, regarding vault... any sale it makes is pretty a sale that mountain dew loses. it's like sprite vs 7-up. for decades, mountain dew went unchallenged (or, at least, thwarted any challenge). vault may finally (though it's too early to tell) be breaking through.

same goes for dasani and aquafina.

no one's writing pepsi's obituary here. i was just simply stating a fact. nationally, diet coke far outsells diet pepsi. smile.gif


Originally posted by SURGE:
CStoreCatMan- I'm assuming popologiest is refering to national sales where he is 100% right. Diet Coke is overtaking Pepsi for the number #2. Currently in 2004 (newest data) Pepsi had 11.5% down .4% while DC was at 9.6% up .3% volume-wise thats a 5.00% increase. The year before Pepsi lost .7% and DC gained .4%- this is a consistant trend. This isn't because Pepsi is doing a bad job but simply because full-callorie stuff is losing volume (see Classic). So yes DC will overtake Pepsi soon undoubtly. DC does sell nearly double Diet Pepsi not including the fact that DC brand extensions dwarf D Pepsi ones in volume. Though Diet Pepsi is seeing good growth as well.

Coke Zero is hovering near the top-10 as well which would be bad news since the current #10 is Sierra Mist (which is flat growth wise- compared to Zero).

Desani vs. Aquafina Coke is playing catchup but closing quickly especially in multi-packs.

As far as VAULT goes its too early to tell but test areas have shown long-term growth and a 14+% 20oz share in C-stores which translates into a nearly equal loss in Dew share- it remains to be seen if this can be replicated nationally.

popologist
03-23-2006, 08:26 AM
smart move by coke... to end this quickly.

on the other hand, pepsi's suit got powerade some free publicity.


Originally posted by Mr Zabe:
Coke and Pepsi Settle (http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-power23.html)

Here is the news story from my local news paper.

Ram0n C0keah0lic
03-26-2006, 03:54 AM
Coca-Cola reaches agreement with Stockely Van Camp (Maker of Gatorade and division of Pepsi)

Note from BEVNET (http://www.bevnet.com/news/2006/03-23-2006-coke_pepsi_powerade_option_lawsuit.asp)