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JACK
09-01-2003, 11:04 AM
Now that Red Fusion appears to have one foot in the grave,what flavors should DPSU come out with to follow the "big boys".

DietCokeEnthusiast
09-01-2003, 12:08 PM
pepper vanilla

JACK
09-01-2003, 03:01 PM
Many would agree with you. Just ask Sonic how many people order a Vanilla Dr Pepper. Only problem will it play outside of Dr Pepper's heartland?

fusion
09-01-2003, 07:09 PM
They should spend the money promoting the brand and buying back franchises, especially from Pepsi bottlers. Oh, and they should push the CF versions more.

I'd love to see CF Pepper in 16.9oz.

PopNutz
09-01-2003, 07:17 PM
How about Lemon Dr. Pepper?

I had an Uncle when I was a kid that made hot Dr. Pepper with a twist of lemon and from what I remember it tasted pretty good.

bigrich
09-01-2003, 10:07 PM
I agree, Dr Pepper should invest in its their third tier system by not renewing any contracts with Coke or Pepsi bottlers. This should be the case with all their products, not just Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper & Seven Up by the same bottler and all their named trademarked flavors could become a real contender.

Terry K
09-02-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by bigrich:
I agree, Dr Pepper should invest in its their third tier system by not renewing any contracts with Coke or Pepsi bottlers. This should be the case with all their products, not just Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper & Seven Up by the same bottler and all their named trademarked flavors could become a real contender.I'll disagree on this one. There are several VERY good Coke/Pepsi bottlers who do a heck of a job with DP.

Ed Rice at Ozarks Coke is one. He pushes the product, and makes it work in his market. He also puts out a quality product. The stuff he sells tastes good and does the product justice.

The folks at Admiral/Fremont in Wyoming are another third tier bottler (who happens to have Pepsi) who do it justice as well.

To say every Coke/Pepsi bottler needs to lose DP is like saying that Pepsi bottlers need to give up Mt Dew. (We do know of two don't have Dew, though)

Another issue is what do you do with the third tier bottlers who couldn't handle 7up let alone DP (A brand that outsells 7up per capita). A move totally to third tier for DP would kill it.

If DP moves to third tier, fountain sales will go down the toilet (Remember YUM pulled DP from its restaurants?) which is not good for the brand as a whole.

DietCokeEnthusiast
09-02-2003, 08:37 PM
Sorry, this may sound stupid, but what is YUM?

fusion
09-02-2003, 08:57 PM
Yum! Brands is the company formerly known as Tricon Global, which was spun off of PepsiCo. It originally was KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut, but they have since added A&W Restaurants and Long John Silvers to their portfolio.

Shatter
09-03-2003, 04:17 AM
That would explain the same crappy food showing up at all those different fast food stores. A couple of years ago, it was wraps. KFC Chicken Wraps. Taco Bell Wraps. Long John Silver Wraps. Same inedible crap, different locations.

teamtitan512
09-03-2003, 04:35 PM
If YUM! has LJS now, how come LJS still has Coke universally?

I think pulling Dr Pepper from PBG is smart though, because Pepsi simply treats it as an afterthought here, sometimes you can't even buy it here in the markets. Wal-Mart doesn't sell 2L or any cans of it, as Pepsi focuses its space on its real brands. PBG is trying to run Dr Pepper in the ground like it did 7Up, so they could ditch it and run free w/Sierra Mist. Yes, Pepsi would be dumb to ditch Dr Pepper, but to them, it's simply an afterthought, like 7Up was. You'll find a lot better distribution for Sierra Mist anymore than Dr Pepper.

The problem is Central Coke can not handle any non-Coke brands in their portfolio, meaning such a change would force Dr Pepper here into the disastrous third-tier system, which has no market share here at all, as there are no third-tier vending machines or coolers here at all from Valley Beverage, only a small section of their brands in the markets. Getting product would be no problem, and customers who would be familiar w/24 oz. Dr Pepper would have no problems getting it, as RC Winchester produces them heavily. I think giving Dr Pepper to Valley Beverage might be a wake up call, being that they'd have received 2 big brands in 7Up and Dr Pepper to distribute, and that they'd need to expand in coolers and vending machines or risk disastrous consequences. Maybe ABC needs to step in and take control of Western MD, we receive some ABC product, so we have a wide variety of product actually being that we have 3 Diet Rite flavors and Squirt, which you'll never see coming from RC Winchester.

Dr Pepper would probably be helped in the Coke strongholds of the South, as Pepsi practically owns rights to it entirely across North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. Baltimore/Washington DC, Seattle, the Twin Cities of Minnesota, Buffalo and Cleveland would all become issues as well. ABC would get it in Cleveland and the Twin Cities, Cro-Pac in Buffalo, CD Potomac in Baltimore/DC (DP was independent at least until the mid-80's in DC anyway). These are effective bottlers who I don't think would kill the brand at all in their respective markets.

Coke at least cares enough to market the drink, which seems surprising since Coke and not Pepsi has the legitimate competitor (Pibb surely outsells Mr. Green).

fusion
09-03-2003, 05:20 PM
Central already has non-Coke brands.. Such as Yoo Hoo and Chocolate Moose. I doubt Coke would allow them to drop Pibb for Pepper, anyway.

I hear Central's finally for sale. I'm curious to see who makes a move on them.

You're right about Pepper in the south, except that Consolidated has Pepper in a few of their markets.. I am almost certain I saw it in their Florida panhandle territory, and our resident CCBCC employee has told us they have it in NC.

I think LJS still has Coke products because they are operating under existing contracts. When Coke signed the contract with Wendy's corporate, there were still plenty of franchises with Pepsi. Once those contracts expired, they would switch to Coke.

I find it kind of funny that YUM owns A&W Restaurants.. and A&W (the soda/brand) is owned by DPSU.

Is Valley a small local operation? Do they just sell soda? beer? juices? I'm not really familiar with them.

SURGE
09-08-2003, 12:52 PM
Just like Fusion pointed out its really funny that A&W Resturants are owned by YUM. Anyways I think DPSU needs to send a review comittie to every single bottler/ dist. of Pepper and see if they stack up. if not drop them and move on. This means everybody Coke, Pepsi, and the 3rd Tiers. As for RF it needs to be pushed HARD or will die soon.

Terry K
09-08-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by SURGE:
Just like Fusion pointed out its really funny that A&W Resturants are owned by YUM. Anyways I think DPSU needs to send a review comittie to every single bottler/ dist. of Pepper and see if they stack up. if not drop them and move on. This means everybody Coke, Pepsi, and the 3rd Tiers. As for RF it needs to be pushed HARD or will die soon.The standards I'd use are as follows:

Promotional Material (How much do you see advertising for DP? And how hard is it being pushed?)
Sales per-capita
Quality of product (Does the stuff taste decent?)
Fountain Presence (Is Pepper being pushed in Fountain as much as it should be? ABC doesn't really do fountain, or at least where I've seen it they don't)

I'm sure we'd find Pepsi Americas and PBG being the first two who'd lose Pepper on those counts.

The third-tier boys really have issues because they've never had to sell products with high-volume (eg, DP and SU) they've had to move product like RC and Nehi for years, with little room to spare.

The best third-tier guys are those in the Carolinas where soda is still soda. SunDrop and Cheerwine enjoy HUGE followings there, and that forces everyone, whether it be PBG, CCE, Consolidated, or even the third tier guys themselves to be better.

I know its hard to fathom a 3rd tier that is functional, but these guys in the Carolinas get it. They really do. You try serving poor-tasting Cheerwine or Sundrop, and you'll be out of business in no time.

Back to Pepsi, generally speaking, most Pepsi bottlers who have Pepper inherited it from a franchise they bought out years ago, and never really bothered to do much with it. (The only Pepsi guys I've ever seen push Pepper and 7up are the folks in Wyoming who I'd say are closer to a third tier who runs Pepsi becuase they sell every DP/SU product *except* RC) Admiral/Fremont does a heck of a job with DP and SU (they even have 7up's man of the year on their payroll)

Another good bottler who works well with DPSU is Ozarks Coke (one you hear me talk about a lot here) got the DP franchise literally by default when Ozarks 7up/DP went broke in the 80's. Pepsi General (now Americas) bought the 7up franchise, and everything else was purchased by Ed "Cookie" Rice and Coke. Ozarks Coke made DP part of its lifeblood, and they sell far more DP than they do Coke every year. Why? They push the product and push it hard. Its not uncommon to see 20 oz buy-one-get one coupons. Its not uncommon to see 55 cent off coupons. You also see tons of billboards and plenty of radio/TV ads for DP and its related products.

Why? They use the marketing budget DP/SU gives 'em every year.

If Pepsi General had been smart enough to pick up Pepper when they had the chance, they'd have a killer market share. What kills them more is in the 'exclusive' pouring rights they have (eg, Southwest MO St.), they can't sell one DROP of Dr Pepper on campus. That is absolutely KILLING Pepsi's business. (Cookie Rice refuses to pay the outrageous prices that Pepsi does to sell on campus, he feels if Pepsi takes a loss, that's fine with him, he can keep his prices more reasonable!)

My whole point here is: Soda doesn't sell itself, nor will poor quality stuff last long. Cookie Rice will attest to this one. (I have a great deal of respect for how he does business and that a family run Coke bottler can survive in today's environment)

teamtitan512
09-08-2003, 07:03 PM
I meant Central sold no non-soda brands of Coke. I've never seen Chocolate Moose here, but then again, we have Yoo-Hoo. I'm not sure if Consolidated or CCE will get Central. Either way, it will be an improvement over what we have now.

Valley Beverage is the very local independent soft drink distributor of third-tier products in Allegany and Garrett counties in Maryland, along w/Mineral County and maybe Hardy County in West Virginia, and then Bedford County in Pennsylvania. They distributed RC and Canada Dry here, then when Cumberland's Coke production center was closed by Central Coke, A&W, Sunkist, and Squirt went to Valley Beverage. They also do Snapple here. 1/1/03 They gained 7Up from PBG. They are a terrible distributor of third-tier product, only in about 2 convenience stores are their products ever seen (A 7Up cooler in Oakland at some hole in the wall gas station, and at the Convenience Express BP in LaVale, just west of Cumberland, an A&W cooler.) Their products can not be bought in 20 oz. hardly anywhere but these 2 places, there is about 10 slots at Sheetz. I've been in Super Wal-Marts in this region that have either about 10 slots for their products or none at all. I've seen one vending machine in the 5 county region, an RC machine in front of the Bedford, PA Wal-Mart that never works. Product comes from RC Winchester for the most part, but we get Diet Rite flavors in 2L and we get Squirt in 2L, 20 oz., and 12 pack from ABC. They have a decent variety, and if they got Dr Pepper from PBG (with Central being the bottler for now, a Pepsi drop would force it into 3rd tier), they'd desperately need to expand cooler space, shelf space, and add some vending machines all over. They have the products to be successful (ABC in Pittsburgh has the same line, with only a few more things, and is doing quite well), they just need some backing from someone to take away their independent feeling. Davis or ABC is the only thing that could propel 3rd tier here. With some kind of force, they could have success here.

fusion
09-08-2003, 10:27 PM
I agree with Terry about the Carolinas. 3rd tier is definately strong.. Independent Beverage of Charlotte, Dr Pepper West Jefferson, and so on. Tons of small Sundrop bottlers, such as Sundrop Bottling in Concord, and Choice USA in Gastonia.

I have a lot of admiration for CCBCC. They're always the innovators, and willing to try new brands and new packages. I took a 13.2oz Coke I bought while I was in Virginia to the office today, and everybody loved it. Thought it was a great idea.

Too bad CCE seems to be out of touch most of the time.

SURGE
09-09-2003, 12:37 PM
As Terry and others have touched on its all about fountain. And thats where alot of 3rd Tiers are lacking as well as vending. I live in an ABC area and I kid you not I have had RC on tap once in my life in this area and thta was at the state fair. In other places I see it quite a bit more often but here ABC is pretty much non-existant in fountains. Their vending machine numbers are also sore. Back to RF though like Terry said alot of places mix the stuff wrong or something. our local Pepsi RF was about par but when I was out on the east coast the stuff was horrid. Down south though I had some that was really strong and flavorfull. The last batch I got here tasted like stagnant water and that was 2 diffrent bottles. They need consistancy BAD!

teamtitan512
09-09-2003, 06:53 PM
I've only ever seen RC once in fountain, at an Arby's in a Pittsburgh area mall. Now they have Coke...like everyone of them does outside of Cumberland.

Another third-tier bottler that needs commended is RC Winchester. They do very well in their territories, and they've effectively killed Pepsi for the most part in a lot of this region (Of course, when you take Mountain Dew away...Pepsi suffers).

Consolidated does do a lot of innovation, and I hope when Central sells out, they go to Consolidated, and not CCE. I think Consolidated would actually try to grow the brand here, CCE would just let this place be shot to hell like they did w/the former Herbco areas in PA.

I've been in areas where 3rd tier coolers and vending machines are all over. Seeing the problems locally upsets me. They have the power to do something...but don't. ABC in Western PA is an example of how screw-ups from Pepsi and Coke, and working w/a small lineup can work to your benefit, and the brands can grow. Coke giving up Sunkist through most of the area, along w/Pepsi giving up 7Up in those same areas, and add to that Coke's dropping of Squirt, Welch's, and Canada Dry in other areas has given ABC a serious chance to not be the #3 brand seller when it comes to non-fountain sales.

mjb1124
09-10-2003, 12:49 AM
RC is on tap in two restaraunts nearby, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it in other places too. I know one of those restaraunts had RC, Diet Rite, 7Up, and Stewart's Root Beer.

Red Fusion is very prominent in the NYC area, widely availible in fridge packs and 20 oz. and 2-liter bottles. We haven't gotten the diet version...is it out anywhere? I haven't noticed whether DP has RF caps...I'll have to check. I personally am not a big RF fan, mainly just because it tastes too much like DP. I'd like to see the caffeine free versions come here (and everywhere for that matter).

XLS_03
09-24-2003, 05:38 PM
Caffeine Free Dr. Pepper is getting harder and harder to find. Is this the same with Caffeine Free Dr. Pepper?

teamtitan512
09-24-2003, 08:30 PM
Not the case w/RC Winchester. If anything, year by year, there is more CF DP and CF DDP.

XLS_03
09-24-2003, 11:06 PM
thats good

ben
03-23-2004, 11:47 PM
DR.PEPPER RED FUSION is still ALL over mami