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Fixx
03-19-2002, 08:27 AM
No wonder the retailer is saying 'enough is enough' there are at least 20+ different energy drinks on the market now. I would be curious to see the Nielsens now and see the rankings of 1 to 100 with distribution, sales, projected volume, etc...

Just a thought and something to add to the board.

Later.

Ron Swedelson
03-19-2002, 07:47 PM
Yeah, but the store owners are just as much to blame as the distributors. The distributors all want a part of the energy drink busines. Who wouldn't, costs them $15-$19 a case, and sell it for $29-$32 a case, thats some good profit. Stores all see Red Bull flying off the shelfs, and think if they buy more and more drinks they will make more and more money. Since all these knock offs are buy 1 get 3 free, once the retailer sells through that crap, yeah, hell make a good profit, but his money could be better spent on other, faster moving items. I just helped reset 3 7-11 stores last week. Boxed up and sent back all energy drinks except Red Bull, Sobe Adrenaline rush (or AMP, depending on the store) and Bawls, thats the only high caffeine items that store carries, why can't more stores be like that.

Windy City
04-01-2002, 07:48 PM
I have a copy of the latest Neilsens (since I work for them)...Red Bull is outselling Coke 20 oz. (yes, it is the #1 bev in convenience stores OVERALL) in almost every major market including Miami, LA, San Fran, Chicago, New York, and gaining on them in Atlanta (Coke's backyard???) and many more. The others show up on the radar screen in new age but no one else can compete with the overall beverage category. Just amazing, who would have thought...the others that have staying power are KMX, Adrenaline Rush, maybe AMP and Rock Star, and Ciclon in some of the Caribbean, but the numbers show the rest are pretty weak, depending on what region you are in. I have to say, I like the new Starbucks double expresso shot and cream. WOW. :eek:

CICLON
04-02-2002, 05:46 PM
CICLON , WAIT AND SEE!!!! tongue.gif

puck
04-05-2002, 07:04 PM
Who woke him up?

sodasommelier
04-06-2002, 02:17 AM
Hey Puck... maybe 'cause it's near Easter and his last supper wasn't kosher for Passover, he somehow resurrected himself. Perhaps someone poured out a bad energy drink where he was buried and he self-exhumed! Is that even possible? I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV. smile.gif

the saint
04-06-2002, 06:32 AM
Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn last night Danny?

Sealude
04-06-2002, 10:03 AM
Now that was funny smile.gif

Ron Swedelson
04-06-2002, 03:17 PM
I saw that Ciclon crap in a store. How cheesey does that package look. Why can't people see past the Red Bull pay cheeck. You know all these companies look at their rip off little can and say, ours tastes better, and looks better, lets take over the market. Thats not how it works. If it did, Bawls would be the number one drink, not Red Bull, or Coke, or Pepsi, or Bud. Why do you keep comming out with more and more me too drinks to flood the market, then pay a crap load of money for slotting fees, only to make it harder for the good drinks to get into the stores. Everyone knows you will be out of the market within the next 6 months. Don't bother us with your crap.

drpep
04-07-2002, 08:51 PM
I see Ciclon is going to be sponsoring a car in the Nascar Busch Grand National Series.

sodasommelier
04-07-2002, 09:26 PM
Will that make their drink look or taste any better???? All that tells me is that they have investors...

boilermaker
04-08-2002, 12:40 PM
If you have investors, taste doesn't matter.

Ron Swedelson
04-08-2002, 08:45 PM
if you have investors, that means you will be able to dive right into the market, but much like a high diver, they will make very little splash with no flavor. Money will get you slotting fees and what not, but with out the good package and taste, you will be gone within 6 months. Unless you are Red Bull, not a good flavor, package was the first, so I can't rip on it too much, but best marketing I have ever seen. With only 80 mg. of caffine, which won't do too much for you, everyone thinks its the drink to have. If only people knew it takes 100 mg. before it even increases mental awarnes, and over 250 mg. to increase cardiovascular surculation (I know thoes words are messed up, just sound them out)

drpep
04-08-2002, 09:01 PM
Its my understanding that Ciclon is going after the Hispanic market.

Ron Swedelson
04-09-2002, 01:45 AM
Oh, you mean like EL TORO LOCO....can you find something that taste worse than that, and not a jones flavor either?

sodasommelier
04-10-2002, 01:39 AM
Damn, you had to forbid using a Jones flavor. Not fair. Made it too hard, Ron! Shame on you!

boodoo
04-10-2002, 07:26 AM
Cyclon is all over the DFW market. I had a retailer tell me it rolled out at $32.00 buy 1 get 2 free! Some accounts have 50+ case displays. Won't these guys ever learn?

sodasommelier
04-10-2002, 10:04 AM
The golf course they've been hanging out at must have some sort of sunlight that aims straight for the brain and barbecues it in place!

Some bev folks are just so predictable. It's like the contacts at restaurants and hotels who talk about their 32% food cost etc and why this means they need junk at a Hilton instead of quality beverages. I almost want to record one of them secretly and then play it on cable TV. Yeah, pay $250 a night to stay at a place that puts stuff in a minibar based upon low case cost but charges $5 a bottle for it anyway. Whenever I see people like that, the first thought that goes through my mind is "got an 'A' in hotel management at the community college"; "consults the textbook whenever in doubt", etc. Please!

Anyone recall the Gigabytes Energy Drink made by the Ice Age Lady? Same thing; buy 1 get 1 free but it 'costs' $32 per case. A year later... Pic N Save, 59¢ a can. Some people just don't get it. And if they really wanted to be another "Red Bull" (they can never be 'first'), at least they might notice how Red Bull never lowers its price. Duh, pay attention to that, business administration and marketing majors all formed from the same textbook! And keep in mind, that textbook was most likely written by someone who gave up doing business to become a professor. Hmmmm.... why would someone do that (other than to get a 3 month vacation each year without losing their job).

ResQ Rob
04-10-2002, 05:42 PM
Ha ha, this thread is great!

I think we need to be looking at the European market to see our next step in the energy drink evolution. You want to talk about saturated!? They have 3X the number of drinks on the market. Take a look at this link, they report on over 30 drinks, and this was published in 1998! web page Euroian Energ drinks (http://http://www.zenithinternational.com/reports/z0340summaryhard.html#Top)

I am curious as to who these investors are that keep dumping cash into disasters of brands. It's one thing to see a push from Coca Cola, Pepsi, Anheuser-Busch, but brands like Black Panther, Flying Horse, Power Horse, Red Devil, Tiger Vit, American Bull, Dark Dog, and Roaring Lion? I mean come on, you must have some serious disposable income to be putting cash into brands like that.

Hey I have an idea, lets start an energy drink, but instead of basing it on a Bull, lets use a Horse...yeah, people love Horses. :rolleyes:

Ron Swedelson
04-11-2002, 01:53 AM
Red Devil I will give a little credit to, since they are fairly big in other countries. And supposidly (correct me if I am wrong) but flying horse was created by one of the orgianl Red Bull creators. The rest, I can't believe people waste their money on. This buy 1 get 3 free, cool deal for you buddy, in 9 months when you sell through it, you will realise how good of an investment it was.

sodasommelier
04-11-2002, 03:04 AM
Hey, forget the investors. Look at Bawls, Knetic, Lolli's Cherry Pop, Power Lemonade, and so forth. They're great and have no investors and no 250ml can. Glass bottles and good taste, interesting inventors, and lots of fun. Great combinations for the long haul. These Dark Dog and Blue Ox garbage can drinks have a half life that you can't see if you blink. And the investors... well, they must be completely blind.

boodoo
04-12-2002, 01:38 PM
Hey RQROB,

Can we make that horse into a pony? I mean after all some horses are tooooo scary. Yeah, we could call it "Power Pony" and market it to the little kiddies. We could have different flavors with different ponies on the cans!

The line extention would be great. Just think of the "Power Ponies" on bedspreads, sheets, curtains, wallpaper, paper plates, napkins and cups. Then comes the "Power Pony" animated Saturday cartoon and later the full length motion picture!

ResQ Rob
04-12-2002, 05:17 PM
Yeah that's genius, Power Ponies, kids can just refer to it as PP, "mom, I want to drink some more pee pee!"

boilermaker
04-12-2002, 06:07 PM
Or puppies! Everybody loves puppies. You can market it towards kids and women!

boodoo
04-15-2002, 08:37 AM
The collective power of our genious here on the BB is staggering!

Ron Swedelson
04-16-2002, 02:30 AM
Everyone knows Im all about honesty. Thats why my screen name is my real name. Thats why I say what I say, thats why I do what I do. Anyone think I can get investors to start up a drink for me. I will call it Can-o-Piss. It will basicaly be a normal Energy Drink, just not hiding behind some goofy label and claiming different Vitamins that were tested on rats in a lab. The can will be a hard, but somewhat transparent plastic or metalic substance. The color looks like piss anyway, and I will tell people to drink it at room temp. so they get the full effect. Most people what the truth in todays world, I figure, why hide it behind "some wings" or some "ass whooping" just grab a can of piss.

boodoo
04-16-2002, 09:12 AM
Come on Ron, the mass public out there wants to be deceived. They are "sheeple", more than willing to follow along lest they be perceived as "different".

At least you could market your "can-o-piss" as something more exotic such as..."golden dew". They will know what they are getting but would have the camouflage of a perceived image.

sodasommelier
04-17-2002, 12:26 AM
Oh yeah... I can see it now... 'Do the Golden Dew'! Hey, what's camouflage... a French pastry? :D

boilermaker
04-17-2002, 11:30 AM
The "Golden Dew shower." :eek:

CICLON
05-06-2002, 04:00 PM
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME!!! :cool:

Ron Swedelson
05-06-2002, 06:03 PM
I agree...it is just a matter of time before CICLON is booted off the shelf at the grocery store. Did, even Red Bull, with their deep pockets, did not jump right into the supermarkets. You need to create a foundation for your sales by working the up and down the street market. But hey, I guess some people will never learn. But, by all means, follow the foot steps of Virgin Cola. Hey, they had big pockets behind them, how could they go wrong?

sodasommelier
05-07-2002, 12:42 AM
Yeah, that's right, Ron... got a stopwatch??? :D

I think that canned energy drinks are all going to fail against Red Bull. The glass ones have a chance...

CICLON
05-08-2002, 09:45 AM
Red Bull already tried , we started a year ago in Miami, we are already gaining territory at a fast pace. See you next year, AGAIN!!!!! :D

Ron Swedelson
05-08-2002, 12:05 PM
Red Bull tried what? To sell 10,000 cases in a month in your Miami Teritory, and did it? It is not Red Bull who is going to stop you. It is you who is going to stop you. Just cause you are picking up more territory doesnt make it any better. Distributors are always picking up and dropping energy drinks. Why not, its a great profitable item, and if it doesnt sell, there are 15 more right behind it. So don't get your hopes up, and stop crowding the shelf with crap.

ResQ Rob
05-08-2002, 02:30 PM
I am still not biting on the idea that an energy drink in a glass bottle is a sustainable model, and/or provides any extra incentive to the end user.

From an athletes perspective, if I am snowboarding, I can stuff a Red Bull in each pocket, and go ride all day. I can drink one, crush the can, and put it back in my pocket w/o it taking up much space or weight. Same w/ being on a bike, I can put one in my jersey pocket, drink it, then just have a lightweight crushed can to put back in my pocket, rather than tote around a heavy ass glass bottle.

From a bar/club perspective, a can is much easier to open, pour out of, and dispose. It takes less room to store. Any bar manager would rather have a bunch of metal cans on the floor, rather than breakable glass bottles. Why do you think they serve up beers in plastic glasses?

From a procurement/supply chain perspective, a can is lighter (cheaper to ship,) smaller, and easier to bottle and store.

Sure it's nicer to drink out of glass, and probably dose taste better, but who is drinking energy drinks for their great taste?

Size wise, 250ml seems just about right. Sure it is nice to get more for your money, but who the hell wants to carry around a 16oz can w/ them? Then take the time to get it all down, and keep it down. I will admit, I buy Rockstars all the time, it is great to ease back on one during a long drive, and not feel like you have to suck out every last drop, and still not be satisfied. But still, I don't feel like a Rockstar = 2 Red Bulls, it may, but by the time I finish one, my stomach is so full, it takes half that caffeine just to digest it.

Just my 2 cents.

Ron Swedelson
05-08-2002, 08:59 PM
Well, I got to disagree on some things there. Carrying on a bike or snowboard, can't say to much about that. Except if you fall the can will still cut you if it gets smashed, but that is a valid point. Bars and clubs, a can is not easier to open than a bottle. Bottle is an easy twist or pull on the bottle opener that is already there for imported beers. A can sometimes get stuck, or not opened all the way, or sometimes the tab brakes off. They already have to dispose of their glass beer bottles, if they choose to pour them into cups, which many do not since there are very few brands that come in plastic bottles. And it is cheaper. The cans costs the bars and stores $33 bucks a case, were as most bottled drinks only cost them between $22 and $28 a case of 24 bottles. The bottle helps with an upscale look, and keep you ways from the only can in the building.
Cheaper to deliver cans over glass, I don't know, Im not in trucking, but thats not a concern I have ever heard from a store owner, cause they don't deal with that part of the busines.
Yeah, Rockstar had a lot of effect to it, but I don't like it because it is just a Red Bull copy, with twice the content. But hey, if your looking for something for the long drive, drink a Bawls, it has more caffine that Rock Star, and more than twice that of Red Bull.
But thats just my two cents.

sodasommelier
05-08-2002, 11:00 PM
Yeah if it all comes down to weight of product and taste and appearance doesn't matter, get serious and just pop a pill.

My two bucks (two cents doesn't even buy a plain seltzer anymore)

CICLON
06-18-2002, 05:42 PM
KEEPS GROWING AND GROWING AND GROWING!!!! :D

ResQ Rob
06-18-2002, 06:35 PM
By weight I just mean it is cutting into the producers margins, and that could effect the end consumers price. It already costs a ton to ship drinks, add the weight of a glass bottle and it costs a ton, + the weight of all the bottles!

I agree that glass gives an upscale look, no question.

Why would I want a Bawls anyways, when I could drink a Ciclon? tongue.gif

Ron Swedelson
06-18-2002, 09:56 PM
Why you comparing an energy drink with a soda? If you are looking for something to actualy give you enough of a caffine, energy boost, then go for Bawls. Great taste, better value, better package. If you just want another me-too brand that tastes and looks like crap, then have at it, grab a Ciclon.

Hacksaw
06-24-2002, 10:58 PM
Funny you should say that, Ron. Last week while I was passing through San Leandro, I stopped at the 7-11 that USED to carry Nehi. While coming up with another drink (Boylan's Black Cherry), 2 people in front of me were buying energy drinks. I mentioned to one of them, a CHP Officer, that I happened to see Jolt's Cherry Bomb on the shelf.

He said that it was too sweet, and stuck with the Bawls that he grabbed.

So, I guess soda vs. energy is a valid question. There IS still too many energy drinks in MHO to survive.

sodasommelier
06-24-2002, 11:37 PM
Hey, you should tell that 7-11 to get on the ball and order more Nehi! Anyway, Bawls is a great bridge between soda and energy. So too is Lolli's. Attractive, tasty energy drinks are the way to go. Those two-buck thimble cans are for the duh crowd. Bawls is like the biggest drink of the internet gamers these days. I think these gamers actually have indirectly caused alot of the popularity Bawls has. Sure you don't see Bawls just anywhere. But wow, does it move where it's available! Take that 7-11 in San Leandro for example. Most 7-11's sell a bunch of junk that nobody really needs like Gatorade and cigarettes. The code there is: pick out about $7 worth of merchandise and it rings up $11. But once in a great while (as is the case here in Lakewood, CA) you'll find a 7-11 owner who actually wants to spice up the place and offer something beyond the duh drinks. And guess what... they sell. There's a Bawls-fanatic 7-11 owner here in Lakewood and he says it sells at about the same rate as Red Bull in his store. There is no signage; nothing. It's just there and people buy it.

Now, going past the bottled energy drinks you have a million thimble can copycat drinks including the pathetic KMX that Coke has been so ashamed of as to write "Product of the Delaware Punch Company" (probably to turn off people from Delaware Punch which they bought and shelved but which was actually good). Those drinks are a waste of money and taste like Khrap and look ugly and embarrass whoever is seen in public with one of their cans in the hand. At least if nobody's familiar with Bawls, Lolli's, or The Maxxx or whatever... at least it looks cool. Nobody but the one drinking it need know how delicious it also is!!! smile.gif

CICLON
06-25-2002, 01:02 PM
Ron you are quite a sore looser!!!! :D

Ron Swedelson
06-25-2002, 05:04 PM
Not a sore looser...just telling it like it is. This market is way to competitive for new energy drinks that aren't going to last. I've seen Ciclon, and there is nothing special about it. But if you do want some props...it does look better than OX Tails...

ResQ Rob
06-26-2002, 04:53 PM
True the energy market is saturated, but it is hard to believe that 1 company (Red Bull) can dominate the industry forever. Especially considering most people are in agreement that they don't have the best flavor in the world.

And Ron, I was just being facetious when I mentioned Ciclon ;) I have finally tried Bawls, it is not bad at all, very distinctive flavor, but it makes for a real hard compare vs. energy drinks. They are definitely carving a niche between sodas and energy drinks. It will be interesting to see if anyone else jumps on that bandwagon. I guess you guys have mentioned Lollis, but I have never seen it before.

sodasommelier
06-26-2002, 11:16 PM
I think you can find Lolli's at YUM in San Francisco; it may also be at Rainbow Grocery in the City. Red Bull certainly has the market cornered but gradually it may become eroded by the other things. It's hard to say who will come up on top in the long run; Red Bull may always hold some sort of a lead. As much as I dislike the product, I think all of us who sell better tasting energy drinks (and exotic good drinks in general) benefit from the fact that Red Bull has conditioned people to shell out big bucks for soda. It makes it easier to convince people to spend something on something which is in fact, good.

CICLON
08-09-2002, 04:56 PM
CICLON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GROWING AND GROWING AGAINST ALL ODDS!!!!! :D :D :D tongue.gif

churcher
08-27-2002, 09:02 AM
Energy-Drink Club 2000 (http://www.energydrinks.cc)

energyman07
09-08-2002, 10:48 PM
There is a new energy drink that just crossed my desk that will cause a stir for sure. It is called SumPoosie and the bottle is incredible. It is a 12oz. bottle and the flavor is by far the best of any energy drink. I am excited to see how this one does in the bars....after all who couldn't use a SumPoosie???

Lepke
05-20-2006, 12:16 AM
Looking back and found this thread.
It’s in many ways relevant to 2006 as it was in 2002.
I figured if I bring it back up it might give some of the new comers a little insight into the category and bring back some memories for the old timers.
And the above link to an energy drink site is still up after all these years.

Super Jay
05-20-2006, 02:02 PM
great thread