View Full Version : BAG N BOX

03-25-2004, 12:59 PM
Bag N Box will win, its all about money. Bar wants to make more money. Brand will not make a difference in the end. Money does!!

03-25-2004, 01:12 PM
Amen!!! That is what I have seen first hand!
"I am a bartender not a can opener!" That is what many are saying. Pouring out of a little can is silly... that's why cranberry and pineapple is in a GUN!!!!!

03-25-2004, 02:41 PM
Will, how does a bar make more money when ounce for ounce RB and BIB cost the same!

How does a bar make more money when the customers behind the person being given a sales pitch on BIB leaves because they cant get a drink?

How does a bar (or any other retail estab.) that doesnt sell what the consumer wants stay in business?

Its like putting an ice cream stand where a coffee house used to be in Alaska! Give the people what they ask for not what YOU feel they need to drink!!

03-25-2004, 02:50 PM
Sorry Toby wrong again! Red Bull cost 16.5 cents per oz. Bag In Box about 8 cents. It would take 25 cases of Red Bull to make what is in one Bag in a Box. That also means the bartenders would have to open 600 tiny little cans. Which would you rather do? "I am a Bartender not a can opener"

03-25-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by heidienergy:
Sorry Toby wrong again! Red Bull cost 16.5 cents per oz. Bag In Box about 8 cents. It would take 25 cases of Red Bull to make what is in one Bag in a Box. That also means the bartenders would have to open 600 tiny little cans. Which would you rather do? "I am a Bartender not a can opener" I WOULD RATHER SERVE MY PATRONS WHAT THEY ORDER!!!

if its BIB or RB or Rockstar in a bulky 16 oz can.
doesnt matter to me...whatever they ask for and gets me the tip! and you know what...if I served them something they didnt order i.e. Pink BIB...I dont deserve a tip!

03-25-2004, 03:06 PM
hold on....a Pink BIB costs $400!!!
Heidi that totally limits you as to where you can sell this product!

Small bars will have to fork out $400 each time you come by! as opposed to $32 or $64 from RB?

Good luck in overcoming that hurdle. sounds like your product is for the high volume clubs. I really dont see a small place shelling out $400 for a bag of mix when their BEER orders probably dont exceed $400!

03-25-2004, 10:57 PM
I know,
Heidi & Dude will offer to sell the bars a half bag each time they swing by...what a mess.


drinking cheap drinks is tacky...I prefer to know what Energy Drink is going in my glass..even if it isn't Red Bull...whatever it is..I want it served straight out of the can.

But hey...that's just me

<Raging Bull>
03-26-2004, 03:18 AM
Has anyone ever met a bar owner who cared if the bartenders didn't like opening cans?

Bar owners care about making money - so they care about what their customers want.

While bar owners would love to cut their per-ounce cost of a drink down; few would be willing to take a $400 chance on a beverage that is unknown and unproven.

Imagine walking into a bar with Bud on tap. You've got a beer that is priced half of what Bud is, but nobody's ever heard of it. No bar is going to take Bud out in favor of something completely unknown and unproven. It just doesn't happen. Tap handles are notoriously hard to get with a major brand; doing so with an unknown just doesn't happen.

03-26-2004, 10:44 AM
Wow I can tell there is a lot of non bar owners around here. First off the bag in a box is 199.00 bucks about the same cost that you would pay for 6 cases of RB. However, that would produce 18 gallons of product and cost 70% less than opening 100's of little tiny cans. Bar owners are in to making money!!! If I can cut their cost 70% and speed up service they are all for it. Why do you think Soda, Pineapple, Cranberry, etc. is all in a GUN !!!! It is faster easier and quicker period!!! We don't open little cans anymore and haven't since the 70's now 30 years later you want bartenders to go back to opening little cans.....sorry its getting old.
I could care less if you agree or not once again I just brought something to the table I have noticed the last month in going to hundreds of bars and nightclubs in and around Florida. The number one complaint from the bartenders was what a pain the tiny little can was to open and pour out of all night. THEY said it slows them down and is a pain in the butt. Popnutz go sell your story somewhere else your pretend bartender story was a joke. I have been in the bar biz 30 years and have seen it all and hired many bartenders. They hate opening cans if you found one that gets pleasure from opening tiny little cans and then trying to pour from them then tell her to hang up her gun and do it with pineapple and cranberry too. That would be a pleasant site seeing all those cans stack up as customers wait for their drinks. I can see why many of you have never owned a bar and by all appearences never should.

Ron Swedelson
03-26-2004, 01:06 PM
I was in Aqua in San Francisco in some recent months, and when my fiance ordered a mixed drink, they poured their cranberry juice from a can and same with my pineapple juice. But hey, I quess that is just what quality places do.
Edude, serious question for you. I guess if you have just started selling your BIB you havent gotten there yet, but you know if the lines are not maintained and not checked for Syrup - to - water levels and CO2 is not proper, you drink can taste pretty nasty. Now how bad will an energy drink taste with all the minerals and crap in it? Im not slamming you, just wondering if you have come across that or if you have a plan for it.

03-26-2004, 02:52 PM
We are getting dedicated lines because we are selling to the people who own the lines. They have been maintaining them for many years. When they run low on syrup pop in another bag. It has worked for everyone else and it is working great for us. If the taste is a little off I doubt anyone will notice considering what they have had to tolerate in the past. ;)

03-26-2004, 03:47 PM
You know what guys n gals. Im gonna give edude a compliment.
His re-direction, spins, and pure talent in trying to get your mind off the real facts in a debate or his sales pitch is by far some of the best Ive heard. And Ive heard alot of CAR SALESMEN in my day.
Its not the "Can", its the Product that comes in a can! People want and order RB! I have never heard people order "energy drink MIX on the gun and Vodka".
Edude is trying to compare mixers to an actual "NAME BRAND PRODUCT". Hince that term, "NAME BRAND".

Its Apples and Oranges!! edude.

Since you have ALL this knowledge and years of experience I know you know what I am talking about, however you will never admit it cause if you do it discredits your whole sales pitch and beliefs in your product. To which I truly respect.

Stick to your guns ever how wrong and misleading they are.

<Raging Bull>
03-26-2004, 04:08 PM
$200 is still a lot of money to ask for a product that is unknown and unproven. Not many business owners are willing to throw their money down the drain like that.

03-26-2004, 10:15 PM
It's about the same cost as 6 cases of RB but it makes about 20 cases of finished product all for 199.00 bucks. How much would it cost the bar to buy 20 cases of RB???? Come on we all know RB is very expensive and we all know it is not the great taste everyone is going for. Not to mention who wants to open 480 cans!!!! It simply does not make sense. Bars want to make money that is why they seldom hand over the can after they just charged you an extra 4 bucks for the drink. What club do you go to that you are going to leave because they don't have RB? As long as it works who really cares? I ordered RB where's my RB give me a break...

03-26-2004, 11:22 PM
edude...your trying to compare apples to oranges!

none of us are buying it! NONE!

So if no one here is buying your lines of BS and slandering then why should we believe that you are selling this product in the marketplace?

Im sure that the bar owners/mgrs are as intelligent as we are and are able to see through all your BS!

03-26-2004, 11:27 PM
Did you think of that response all by yourself Toby ..... bravo well done... :rolleyes:

<Raging Bull>
03-27-2004, 04:02 AM
If RB tastes so bad to everyone, how are they managing to dominate the category?

03-27-2004, 10:11 AM
Damn, you caught me!! No I didnt edude...I had my Mommy help me ... but only after I finished my homework!

Ron Swedelson
03-27-2004, 01:41 PM
If the taste is off a little who will really notice. I can't believe you said that. You dont care if the flavor of your prized drink is off? I will return my Diet Coke 9 out of 10 times if it is somewhat flat or off in taste a little. Havent you been so adiment about how your product tastes great, but when asked a serious question your responce was, its ok if that flavor is off. You keep saying that no one buys RB for the taste. You dont like the flavor, it is not one of my favorit flavors either, but there are a ton of people who do enjoy the flavor. They have almost a 70% market share. And there is no shortage of alternative choices, yet they keep increasing their sales.

03-27-2004, 04:53 PM
Ron.... I said as long as it works who really cares? That is what I said. Ron I agree RB is the King but why is it? They certainly make it difficult to use the product or maybe Pepsi and Coke have it all wrong!!! 8oz. cans only no matter what!!! I have 8 I am great! I have 8 I am great! I have 8 I am great! Do I get an RB van now? ;)

the saint
03-27-2004, 08:07 PM
coke and Pepsi were only in 8 oz bottles for what 40 years? maybe in 40 years rb will be in other size packages also.

03-27-2004, 08:16 PM
Yeah... and we used typewriters for over 100 years, your point is....?

<Raging Bull>
03-28-2004, 02:53 AM
RB is probably looking at the $4-$5 (per container) retail cost with larger packages and betting that the cost would be too high for the average consumer.

I seriously doubt that consumer demand drove the various new packages put out by Coke/Pepsi over the years. Instead, the companies desire to increase market share drove the placement of new packages. Marketing drove the consumer to demand the new packages.

the saint
03-28-2004, 10:34 AM
and your point is what?

03-28-2004, 11:50 AM
I spell it out for you Saint its 2004!!!
Who cares if Coke was once available in a 8oz.
bottle only that was 50 years ago. We used to use typewriters too but most of us have moved past that too.

My point is RB offers only a little 8oz. can and in now a days Americans enjoy convenience and choice. RB says you want more .... open the cans..... if you want a lot.... open more cans......crazy....!!!

But I know a lot of you RB people are brainwashed and the tiny can and its awful taste and odor can do no wrong. It is really unbelievable.

Tiny 8oz. Cans Rule Inc.
www.Iliketinybitchlikecans.com (http://www.Iliketinybitchlikecans.com)

03-28-2004, 01:14 PM
What a great topic.

Here is my spin.

Reasons why most bars will not switch to BIB:

1) 99.99999999999999% of the time their CUSTOMERS are asking for RB and Vodka, not a well version of "energy drink and vodka". The other .00000000000001% of the time? When the loser distributor rep whose company missed out on the rights to RB is out with his/her friends and decides to be cool and ask for the ****ty "me-too" energy drink his bosses force him to push out of loyalty to his own company.

2) They are making a ****load of $$$$ on RB, why mess with it? You can complain about "overworked and underpaid" bartenders who have to open (gasp) hundreds of tiny little cans every night. Those poor ****ing bartenders and their sore little fingers. Im willin to bet that their fingers arent so sore when they are counting all their tips at the end of the nite. Especially when those tips are coming from young kids with money who are ordering ROUNDS of $6.00 Jaeger Bombs and $7-$8 RB and Vodkas at a fevered pitch. Boo ****ing Hoo to the "sore fingers" arguement.

What about the fact that these bars were never making money on mixers until RB came into the market and suggested an upcharge of $2 per half can to tag onto the price of their mixed drinks. I know they are not upcharging for tonic water, cola or juice with their mixed drinks.
Opening hundreds of tiny cans= MAKING A ****LOAD OF $$$$

3) Most bars do not own their own soda lines. In fact most of these systems are owned and installed by Coke & Pepsi. You think these 2 comapnies are going to allow someone else's product on their system? Not where I come from homey.

4) BIB hurts the bars image. Bars who switch over to BIB would be viewed at skeptically by their consumers. If I was going to my local bar every week for 2 years drinking Bull and then one day I ordered one and the bartender turned his back to me & poured a generic energy drink from a gun I would ****ing bitchslap him. Things that would start to run through my mind would be if this prick is going cheap on his energy drinks what does that say about the rest of his business? Is this really Stoli ras Im drinking at this guys bar or is it actually smirnoff ras decantiured into the stoli bottle to increase his bottom line? What about the quality of food at this guys bar? If this guy is so cheap about his energy drinks, what does that say about the quality of meat he puts into his hamburgers? Ughh!!!

5) Most bars do not go through enough volume of RB to be a good candidate for BIB. What about all the bars that only use 1-3 cases per week of RB? Even if they wanted to switch to BIB the stuff would be flat/sour by the time they got to the bottom of the first box.

6) Bars that do go through enough volume of RB to be good candidates for BIB are already partnered up with RB. That would mean that they are under contract. Good luck.

7) Most markets will not have willing distributors for the BIB. What distributor really wants to waste their money, time, manpower, and energy getting involved with such a fight/project. They have plenty of better things to be focused on.

03-28-2004, 02:05 PM
Sounds like a RB man to me! Goldmember according to you the little can is it end of story! Do you have any idea at all how many people do not order RB at a bar... 8 or 9 out of 10. Do you honestly think it should be the only option? It taste terrible to most people. I sell to people who own and maintain their own lines!!! They want to compete against RB!!! They know they have a very large price and convenience advantage. All I am suggesting is this RB is fine for those few who have to RB and nothing else but a less expensive better tasting more convenient choice is worth while. Last night I was talking to a few Owners in South Beach and they want Energy in a gun. They are tired of hearing the Bartenders complain.
Opening 50 cans a night gets old. But to you RB people an 8oz. can fits every situation. It simply doesn't and isn't convenient if it were Coke and Pepsi would be in a tiny tin can.

the saint
03-28-2004, 02:12 PM
you obviously either didnt read my post or cannot comprehend what anyone other than your wife heidi or yourself have to say. just some food for thought for you.. do you happen to know what the second lowest category in profit is for soda companies??? well if you don't I will tell you behind full service vending machine the second lowest, don't know if it even makes one, profit category for soda companies is bag-in-box. Do you even know how long the date codes are for bib are?? BIB goes dead in about 10 weeks untapped. nto to mention the upkeep on the equipment. I am sure your crap in a box isn't going to be much different as far as profit. but then again I forgot you do not own the machines, pay for the CO2, maintain the lines, fix the pumps when they go south, you are expecting either coke, Pepsi whichever owns the equipment to do that aren't you? the fountain machines are going to throw your product out as fast as redbull threw your junk out of THEIR coolers. when that happens and it will happen what are you going to go on a tirade about then???

03-28-2004, 03:28 PM
Saint I heard you and I know this board wants no one to enjoy success but the truth is SumPoosie is a wonderful product. 17 states and 6 countries in 18 months. Not bad!!! The brand continues to grow because people love drinking SumPoosie because it taste great and comes in glass and when your done you have a really nice "Bottle Model." I have taken on BIB because my customers asked for it over and over again. I have a 100 boxes out right now and I am getting feedback from everyone and it is all positive. The thing they have found is they are selling more drinks mixed with energy now that they are offering something new and better tasting. They are still selling cans when customers order it but bartenders are becoming my best sales people because they do not want to open little cans if they do not have to. There is nothing wrong with choice and Bartenders make more money and have more fun when the pour from a gun!

Ron Swedelson
03-28-2004, 04:29 PM
Edude, I still don't get all your posts. You say Sum Poosie is a great brand, and in past posts you said it will replace Red Bull in all on-premis accounts because it is a suppirior brand. Then you say bartenders are tiered of opening these cans as mixers and having to pour them (even though I dont know anyone who cant open a can in under a second, or if their hands are hurting, use an opener for it). Then you jump back and say, No Sum Poosie is a great brand, and bartenders wont throw the bottles out cause its great and its a colectors item and whatever. Well, wouldnt not throwing out bottles and keeping them around slow the bartenders down? Wouldnt it take about the same time (a second or 2) to open a bottle and pour it as a can and pour it? I am not saying TP BIB is a bad product, I am saying either the market has not been ready for a BIB energy drink, or there is some reason the big guys (coke/Pepsi) have not done it yet. And I do have a problem with your reasonings for BIB vs. Red Bull since your Sum Poosie sales pitchs go against your RB bashing claims.

03-28-2004, 05:54 PM
gold and saint, I have asked those same question and got no answer from edude.
Ive stated those same facts, and I do get a response from him....which is Im silly, dumb, in love with RB, dont understand, etc.

There is no advice given to SUM one that is always right,
there is no guidence taken from SUM one who "KNOW" where there going,
and there is no talking to SUM one who cant listen!

so I say ...oh well (with hands in the air)

03-28-2004, 06:14 PM
SumPoosie is not what this thread is about Ron. It is about BIB and how many see things changing in the future. If you think Bartenders are going to keep opening expensive and time consuming cans it is your right to believe what you want. SumPoosie is a different product than RB. It looks,mixes,smells, and taste better but people also want the bottle. The bottle is a collectable and people want it. Porn Star Gina Lynn is now on the bottle and I get 20 emails a week asking for her bottle. When people order SumPoosie they want the bottle!!! Few people that order RB ask for the can even though the should.
Ron the facts are guns are in "nearly" every club and bar in the country. The reasons.... speed, space, efficiency, and cost!!! Bottle or cans is not the issue. RB says 8oz. can no matter what!!!! you want more too bad open another can... you want alot??? open a lot of cans.... Silly Ron....Simply Silly!

03-28-2004, 07:46 PM
Edude is right Ron, its about BIB, edude contradicting himself, and his sales pitch!
His whole stand on BIB is it saves time, correct?
Well the time saved is lost plus some when you have to sell the consumer on the TP BIB insteed of what they asked for!
Edude is correct in that a gun behind the bar is for ease and speed.
However, what edude doesnt want everyone to think about is the BIG picture! time and aggrevation in the mixture, the code dating, maintenence/repair/upkeep in the lines and even the whole system. I can go on.
So yes, it does save time (a few seconds)behind the bar, but in the long run/Bigger Picture it does not save time.

Kinda like the whole scene in "My Cousin Vinny" when Joe P was explaining the playing card/building block theory to Ralph M.
"looks like a brick, feels like a brick, seems to have the shape of a brick, but it is really a playing card!"

03-28-2004, 07:59 PM
Doesn't take any time away at all to tell a customer "I got something Better". Like I said before Bartenders are helping because "they" are tired of the little cans. They are BARTENDERS not CAN OPENERS!!!

RB is like asking for a Q-Tip !!! I don't really care if it is Q-Tip but they know what I am asking for. Not many people say cotton swap.
I just spoke to one of customers using the BIB and the bartenders said only 2 customers said no thanks just give me RB. The other 23 people said great or nothing at all when the Bartender said I have something better!!! Why not give them what they ask for ??? 3 reasons...1) They do have something better... 2) The Bartender doesn't have to open a little can.... 3) The bar makes 75% more money!!!

It's as easy as 1,2,3!!!

03-28-2004, 08:50 PM
"Doesn't take any time away at all to tell a customer "I got something Better"."

so now bartenders have to have telepathy?

the time it takes to say "I got something better"
is the difference in a gun and cracking a can of RB.
what happens when the customer says in return "What is it?" now we are burning more time..because the bartender will have to answer.
Sounds like a full blown conversation to me edude! Not nessecarally what a bartender wants in a full crowded bar?

so RB is quicker to serve!

Id rather crack oprn and sell 100 lil cans than explain (and maybe sell) 100 times what Pink BIB is.

03-28-2004, 09:03 PM
Gee Toby believe it or not bartenders can speak and make the drink at the same time!!! It's simple Toby they are the ones who are tired of opening the little cans it just doesn't make sense and a bar can save 75% doing without the can. It's as easy as 1,2,3.
I'm a Bartender not a Can Opener!!!

Ron Swedelson
03-29-2004, 12:25 PM
any bartender that makes a drink, then tells you what it is, when you have asked for someting else, is a crappy bartender. I dont drink energy drink mixers, but lets just say I ask for a Diet Coke and Jack. He serves it up and then says, this is better, its RC Cola, or its Dr. Pepper, or its Coke. Guess what, Im not paying for that drink. How long does it really take anyone to open a can? second, if that. So over the course of a night, instead of selling 100 cans, you just use a gun, so you saved almost 2 min. in all. Wow, great time saver for replacing a high end brand name. Now hey, if they want to sell at a cheaper price a well energy drink mix, then hey, thats fine. But for you to convince any of us that BIB is the answer, and will replace RB, and that no customers will care. Not going to work.
Do you still sell Sum Poosie?

Uncle Thirsty
03-29-2004, 03:32 PM
If the trend is changing, I'm sure it wont be long before all the category Leaders, pull out there BIB version,

If Pepsi or Coke decides to package BIB, Then say goodbye to any open spots on the gun.

Or RB will Buy up all the open lines from PEPSI/Coke ( They will offer enough money)

Pepsi/Coke will make more money renting/selling lines to other energy drinks companies, Then they do selling their own energy off the shelf.

Life's a Party - Quench It.......

04-23-2004, 01:14 AM
I noticed a lot of badgering on the subject BIB product. As an owner and a long time BIB user, my choice is the BIB product if it's available. In this instance, we are comparing an 8.3 ounce can of Red Bull to numerous other canned and BIB products. I agree that if someone asks for a Red Bull, they should get a Red Bull. But, what if you asked me for a Red Bull Vodka that sells for $6 and I offer you a taste of a new product that tastes exactly like Red Bull but for half the price, would you buy it? This is the option that we are talking about. Of course, if you are the connoisseur that you say, you will still purchase the Red Bull item and because there is somewhat of a "cool factor" while carrying the can. If they Bartender gives it to you. Most of the time, it is our job as servers and bartenders to offer the public new products. It is also our job to help keep costs down and efficiency up. When it comes to offering any bar product in a can that is available in as a BIB product, the BIB product will normally be half the cost or even less in some cases. The canned item also takes up valuable cooler space. Not to mention the garbage and the shrinkage involved with any canned or bottled beverage who's contents isn't completely used up in the drink mixture. This is why your canned juices are only 3 to 5 ounces.

I do agree with the Bartenders and such that stated that "they are not a can opener". I have done numerous cost savings analysts on Red Bull verses BIB products for my clients and myself. The savings has always been in the BIB product.

Has anyone had a chance to try Roaring Lion Energy Drink. This product was developed by former ex Red Bull management. The product is exactly and I mean exactly like Red Bull. The taste, the smell and even the color. IF you compare the ingredient lists side by side, you will see that they are exactly the same.

Now, my question is this. IF Bob comes into my establishment and orders a Red Bull-Vodka, I inform him that I do carry Red Bull but, I also carry Roaring Lion. I let him taste the Roaring Lion, that I have on the gun, and he agrees that there isn't any taste variance. And, because the Roaring Lion BIB product is less costly for me to pour, I can sell him the SAME Roaring Lion and Vodka for $3 instead of $6, which one will he purchase?

I am by no means an expert. But, I do know a little about the Nightclub and Bar business.

Good Luck, David

04-23-2004, 01:17 AM
Also. After talking to the Red Bull North America people at the Nightclub & Bar Show 2004 in Vegas, they said that their product will never be available as a Bag in a Box product. This is a decision that Red Bulls founding father has made apparent to them.

Good Luck, David

Coco Rico
04-23-2004, 02:41 AM

You make some valid points, however, a few questions:

If efficiency and space are a concern, why carry any call or top shelf liquor brands? Couldn't the same argument be made that you would stock nothing but wells and since it's cheaper no one will care?

Also, for a man that claims to like making money, your math doesn't seem to add up. You said:
because the Roaring Lion BIB product is less costly for me to pour, I can sell him the SAME Roaring Lion and Vodka for $3 instead of $6, Red Bull is $.16 an ounce, Roaring Lion is $.06. Let's say your cocktail consists of 4oz energy drink and 1.5oz vodka. Let's say the vodka pour costs you $.45. The Red Bull cocktail costs you $1.09 to pour. You sell it for $6 and you net $4.91 per cocktail. The Roaring Lion cocktail costs you $.69 to pour, you sell it for $3, and you net $2.31 per cocktail. Way to go!

Everytime you sell a cocktail with Roaring Lion instead of Red Bull, you make half the profit.


Ron Swedelson
04-23-2004, 11:42 AM
I personaly dont have an issue with the way David presenting his case. I dont know the profits so I wont say anything good or bad about that. Roaring Lion, I have not seen that out here in years, but mainly because it just did not go over well. My main questions are that if BIB is so hot, why have the big guys not done it yet, or Rock Star or Monster who are really trying to get a bigger piece of it all. Red Bull, I can understand on their principles that they would not do a BIB, but no reason why the other companies would not. Also, if you ask people to try your new drink, thats great. As long as people are willing to try it because you asked them to and not sold them something different from what they ordered.

Startup Dude
04-23-2004, 01:17 PM
I think there are various issues here.

First of all, I think BIB products are best for generic products, such as colas, etc. Energy drinks form a beverage category, not a specific product. Some will ask then why is beer served on tap? I guess there is traditional aspect to this, but also, I don’t know of any successful bar with one beer offering. Beer is not generic. Beer on tap is a taste and cost issue, but any decent bar must be able to offer bottled beer for the discriminating client.

RB is currently spending so much in advertising; most bars benefit from it by selling RB as a high margin product. However, selling a BIB product at a lower price may generate more sales in some bars. All this depends on the bar’s clientele. Edude probably doesn’t have any problem selling BIB and SP in his strip clubs, where most clients do not make a big fuss on what is being offered in terms of beverage. Most customers in strip clubs only want a beverage to sip for a long time, as beverage price in such places are generally up there. (I’ve never heard any one say, I feel like having a Newcastle Brow Ale... let’s go to a strip club)

So offering what the customer wants, selling at the highest margin possible is the real issue. If RB pays for exclusivity in a bar, then you can’t serve your generic BIB energy drink. If customers ask for RB, and you don’t have it, this may be a problem in terms of repeat business, but not for all bars. If the clientele is less trendy, they will probably be more price-sensitive, so BIB is the solution.

We can’t generalize. But one thing for sure, you can’t sell a BIB product at the same price as a RB product, at least not in the longer run. Customers are not dupe.

04-26-2004, 10:59 PM
THAT IS THE POINT !!! Customers are not stupid and are already tired of paying up to 8 dollars to have RB added to their Vodka. It is about function and price and BIB can be used to satisfy both the customer and the bar.

What is wrong with a better tasting Energy Drink that does the job and cost a lot less?

04-26-2004, 11:02 PM
To answer your question Ron, Coke and Pepsi are in the Cola Business not the energy business. They are seperate products and they do not like to stray from what has made them successful!

Coco Rico
04-26-2004, 11:35 PM
Let's pretend there is no issue with passing off. The problem with a cheap energy drink alternative, served out of a gun, is that contrary to popular belief, the premium price point of most packaged energy drinks has a lot to do with their success. It creates a demand because it's not something everyone can have. When you dumb it down and bring the price point to the level of any other soda, the uniqueness is no longer there.

Consumers paying $8 for a Red Bull cocktail is a good thing. After all, as everyone knows, the on-premise business is all about image and brand identity, not volume per se.

Just look at all the energy drinks that tried to compete with Red Bull at the C-store level by lowering their prices... it had the opposite effect. It set Red Bull up as the premium choice and made the demand even greater. Red Bull will never lower its prices to compete with all it's imitators. That is called brand integrity, and that is why they will remain at the top of the heap.


04-26-2004, 11:36 PM
Coco I find it interesting that you never mention that at one of my favorite bars they serve the can of RB with each drink. That means each case only makes 24 drinks. BIB in the same amount of ozs. makes 46 drinks. The bar charges 5 dollars for the whole can and 4 more bucks out of the gun.
Cans net 120 bucks BIB nets 184. 50% increase in profit is a wonderful thing!

Startup Dude
04-26-2004, 11:46 PM
Edude, as usual you did a very selective reading of my post.

Coco Rico, I agree with you, one of the first considerations in pricing energy drink is consumer perception; they are purchasing the drink for the perceived benefits it will provide them. Going to market with a low price will negatively impact the consumers’ perception of the brand, giving the consumer the impression the beverage is made with lesser quality ingredients and so on. You know, a cheap knock off.

When you sell out of a BIB, you loose your ability to charge premium prices.

But as far as remaining at the top of the heap... for how long. The next generation will probably identify with a new brand (no, not TP edude), that will come and spend $$$$$$ to brainwash the not-yet ripe juvenile brains, when RB will be associated as being an old geezer’s drink… Happens every time with trendy products.

Coco Rico
04-26-2004, 11:53 PM
Where in your math do you account for the amount of revenue lost because the bar no longer serves Red Bull? How much more profit does the BIB generate every time a consumer switches to a bottled beer, or a vodka tonic when their drink of choice is no longer sold?

Ask any bar owner who has managed to sell a BIB energy drink for an extended period of time and they will all tell you that eventually, they are forced to lower their prices because consumers won't shell out the money they once did for Red Bull. Where's the profit then? Most bar owners voluntarily switch back to Red Bull, because it's the only thing that will justify such a high ring at the register. And its one of the only energy drink brands that will expend resources to actually support its customers.

This isn't just subjective banter on my part. The proof is out on the west coast. BIB hit that part of the country 2-3 years ago, and it's fading away. Red Bull sueing a handful of bars didn't do all that, it was the realization by bar owners that if they kept up with a cheap product, they'd kill the golden goose so to speak, and in the end lose more money than they could ever hope to gain with an energy drink on the gun.


04-27-2004, 12:05 AM
I guess you can't read Coco.....?????
My favorite bar serves both !!!
My point is they make more money with the BIB.
Granted it has only been one month but they offer both and it has worked wonderful!!!
They serve RB and BIB and customers are ordering more drinks with energy than ever before! The fact that BIB is better tasting and less expensive is appealing to the customers and more profitable for the club owner.
Those that want RB still get it.... but now they have a choice!!! People that want RB get it and people that want something that looks and taste better at a better price get what they want too.
It is working very well for this club. It goes to show ya..... if you serve more than one beer or vodka why not a better tasting less expensive energy drink......choice!!! smile.gif

Ron Swedelson
04-28-2004, 01:42 AM
Coke still wants to be a player in the game, as does Budwieser. But how can you say Pepsi is not even in the energy drink market. Yes, they may sell mainly colas, but add up the sales of Adrnaline Rush, AMP, and No Fear. That is some pretty big numbers.

04-28-2004, 12:20 PM
Wow! E-dude is really confused this time:

To answer your question Ron, Coke and Pepsi are in the Cola Business not the energy business. They are seperate products and they do not like to stray from what has made them successful!
Both are in the business of making money - large amounts of it. Both brands have branched out to include many items that aren't cola's - including various flavors of sodas.

This site (alone) is full of comments on the various beverage offerings (both failed and successful) of the two competitors.

Frito-Lay is one small example of a (group of)product(s) that isn't remotely approaching a cola. Last I knew, that branch of PepsiCo was the cash cow of the company - bringing in more profits than any of the other branches of the company.

Wines, fruit-drinks, cereals, snacks, resturants, sporting-goods, isotonic drinks, film, movies, teas, etc... - all examples (in E-dudes mind) of how the two major soft-drink companies refuse to branch out from their cola business.

04-28-2004, 04:27 PM
wow tahts!!
I am just waiting for Dustins reply (backpedal) on that one!

Good job!

05-06-2004, 09:46 PM
Taht..... Once again they are not in the energy drink business. Everyone knows they have diversified their portfolio through acquisitions.
Thanks for that enlightning news. Fact remains they have not focused on Energy drinks because they are doing well in other areas (in Pepsi's case) In Coke's case .... they are still trying to find someone to run the company.

05-07-2004, 07:11 AM
WAFM!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

05-07-2004, 10:04 AM
BIB will soon be available in 2 more great flavors. I think BIB will soon offer 3 or 4 different flavors of energy that can make a variety of drinks! The cost will be around 4 cents per oz. to the bar!

That will enable club owner to drop the price a little so more people can enjoy their drink with energy.

05-08-2004, 03:30 AM
So, Edude are you going to be out promoting your BIB product at country thunder?

05-08-2004, 10:11 AM
I think corporate plans on Putting out the new Water Beverage made with Splenda first because of Summer. The BIB will be at the next big Beverage show I am sure. :D
Corporate is busy putting out there 4 new flavored waters... I will send you the labels.
They are really sharp.

<skif dank>
05-08-2004, 03:40 PM
im in ohio too, and i know there's alot of low-income folks, and hole-in-the-wall bars here.
im not saying the product you're supporting isn't good, or doesn't make sense. I have no doubt that SOME people in SOME places would be glad to be cut a break on $ when they're out drinking. What i AM saying is that if you were RB, and this bib product was actual RB, then ofcourse! It would catch on rightaway and save everyone a ****ton of time and money. But, it's not RB.. I haven't even read enough to know what the hell is in it. If RB was pushing your idea it would catch on like aids in the porn industry, however generic substitutes simply dont attract the same portion of customers willing to pay for the original nor could it bring in the same profit made by selling the orginal despite its price due simply to brand popularity. anyway, it is a good idea, and it does make alot more sense. Unfortunately, we dont live in a very sensical world, and you aren't working for the one company who could make your idea work. it's nothing personal, just reality.

05-09-2004, 11:00 AM
In your world there is only Budweiser, there is only McDonalds, and there is only Coke and Pepsi.

We all know that is not true and either are you statements. Not to mention the fact that RB is not even a very good product. Does it sell yes....but when you break it down piece by piece it is simply a poor product and can be dangerous when mixed with alcohol.

The product does not look good, smell good, or taste good and contains way too much sodium.

I will never pay 4 or 5 bucks.... even more some places to have RB added to my drink. Think how stupid that really is! But if I can get a splash from a gun for 2 or 3 bucks and it looks and taste better. Sooner or later the better product for less money wins. Like it or not.

Ron Swedelson
05-09-2004, 12:33 PM
prove it, bring it out here to SF. Lesser costing drinks are usaly viewed as knock offs. That is why ever energy drink out here realls does not do anything if it is priced to far below the 1.99 price point. Plus, if there is a drink I want, I will always pay for it. I will never buy store brand soda, even though I can get a case for the same price as a 6 pack of Diet Coke. I know what I want, I can tell the difference, and I will pay for it. Now sure, come back with your stupid remarks, but all I can say is prove it. Bring it here to SF.

05-09-2004, 02:12 PM
Ron, I know you can't spell but please type in a few the right way so I know what your talking about!

When we find a good distributor in San Francisco the product will be there! Any suggestions?

Ron the product comes out to 4 cents an ounce for the club owner! Every drink cost the club 16 cents or 32 cents for a full glass. RB cost 4 times that much if not more.

No theft and little storage needed. Looks better taste better and the extreme savings can be passed on to the customer and we all know lower prices mean more sales.......ask Walmart! :D

05-10-2004, 01:15 AM
So Edude, you going to be at Country Thunder? With your great BIB product??

05-10-2004, 11:14 PM
No just the cans and I think the hand sanitizer will be out there also !!!

BIB is doing very well and every single customer has reordered!

Coco Rico
05-11-2004, 03:15 AM
Not that I care. But I thought you said you were a bartender, not a can opener; and now your BIB comes in cans? Please tell me you see the irony...


05-11-2004, 08:36 AM
PAW BIB is in cans?

Surprised that Alanis Morresette doesnt redo the song "IRONIC" just for this bit of info!

05-11-2004, 09:39 AM
LOL !!! The flavor is the same but the color is not! www.idrinkthinkpink.com (http://www.idrinkthinkpink.com)
BIB is RED ! and made for quick easy use, takes up little space, no theft, and much less expensive than any can could ever be.

Startup Dude
05-11-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Energydude:
No just the cans and I think the hand sanitizer will be out there also !!!Marketing synergy: TP and hand sanitizer, everything you need when you use the Portajohn during Country Thunder LOL!

Startup Dude
05-11-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Energydude:
www.idrinkthinkpink.com (http://www.idrinkthinkpink.com)
Edude, tell Drayton that using white font on light pink is not a good idea, unless you're hiding something you don't want people to read...

05-11-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Energydude:
I think corporate plans on Putting out the new Water Beverage made with Splenda first because of Summer. The BIB will be at the next big Beverage show I am sure. :D
Corporate is busy putting out there 4 new flavored waters... I will send you the labels.
They are really sharp. NOPE I DONT DO WATER :confused:

Ron Swedelson
05-11-2004, 11:19 AM
Be a bartender, not a little can opener...unless its a can of my product, then it is ok to open cases upon cases, but if its not my product, please dont be AFM and open cans, its just stupid, be a bartender.

Has that sumed up his last few posts?

05-11-2004, 02:40 PM
You people seem a bit petty. If it is offered in a can as well as a box what is your contention?
Red Bull offers only the can and I think his point is why should a small can fit all purposes?
Try not to act like children and address the points at hand. Energydude is not saying a can does not fit some situations. A busy bar is apt to benefit from the ease of a gun. Are you all suggesting that a small can is useful and beneficial in all situations?

05-11-2004, 04:33 PM
yo "stevens" .... seeing is that you are a newbie and not registered, what gives you the right to come here and drop insults on people?

Take a lil time and read up on other threads and maybe you'll learn everyones opinion and the facts on this whole topic!
Until then, shut up!

Ron Swedelson
05-11-2004, 06:04 PM
obviously, anyone is welcome to come on to the board, but if you are not registered, and have not had some posts underyou, you bring to the table ZERO credibility when you want to insult others. As Toby said, read the other posts, notice that SUM threads say one thing, then when backed into a corner, they say another thing. So hey, stick around, register, chime in here and there, but untill then, drop the insults.

05-11-2004, 07:26 PM
Hey 411 now you see what I have to deal with !!! ;) I don't know what insults they are talking about I didn't really see any in your thread but I can tell you this much..... They cry like this all the time!

My entire point for this thread is that in a bar situation BIB is a much less expensive and easier way to get product out to the customer. NO WHERE did I ever say a can is never any good.

I would never walk around with a tiny can in my hand but a 12oz. can is no problem. Big guys walking around with a tiny can look silly.

Point is BIB has its place and so does a 12oz. can! 8oz. is not enough.....16oz. way too much....12oz. mmmmmm just right!!!! :D

05-11-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by &lt;stevenson411&gt;:
You people seem a bit petty.
Try not to act like children and address the points at hand. edude....of course you dont see the insults cause you found a friend ..... awwww how cute :rolleyes:

oh and hey, as far as putting up with us all the time? ....Im sure we are the least of your worries.
Case in point my POLL, "Where is SP?"

05-13-2004, 09:13 AM
What new company doesn't need good distribution?

Fact is corporate is adding 3 new distributors a month now and expect to have 40 by the end of the year !!!

Who wouldn't want to sell SumPoosie?

05-13-2004, 09:39 AM
Ah someone called you petty and childlike and that is a horrible insult. Truth hurts huh!

06-27-2004, 08:08 PM
BIB is a good idea, but 95% of everyone orders a red bull and whatever alcohol they prefer. 99% of the time the bartender will not tell the customer they are pouring something other than red bull. In other words, Selling them something they didn't ask for. I can't stand when that happens. In my mind thats poor business edicate. It's like ordering a newcastle and getting a coors light. It all about what the customer wants. Not what the bartender wants. Deal with it if you brake a nail of two. It will grow back. You migh get better tips if you give them what they want.

06-28-2004, 12:22 AM
There is nothing wrong with giving the customer what they want ..... BUT !!!!

Bars are not giving the customer what they want!

9 out of 10 customers do not order energy with their drink. Ofcourse, most people when they order energy will ask for RB because they often think they don't have other choices and rarely do!

Serve something the other 9 out of 10 will drink!
Most people think RB is nasty.... give the majority something they will drink!

That..... is the point! tongue.gif

06-28-2004, 04:52 PM
Energydude, You make no sense at all and have no clue what you are talking about. Find another hobby! :confused:

Ron Swedelson
06-28-2004, 08:07 PM
So people order RB and whaterver because they dont think they have any other choice? Yet they think RB is nasty. That does not make sence. If your stats are true, 9 out of 10 dont order RB and "", then fine, go after the other 9 people. But to say people order it because they dont think they have a choice, yet they think it is gross is just a wrong statement. They would simply order something else. Plus, most people who drink energy drinks at clubs as mixers are familier with at least 3 brands.
But the biggest point here I think people are trying to make is, if someone orders RB, give them RB. You can say "Hey would you like to try this instead" if they say yes, then good for you. But giving them something that they didnt ask for, that just doesnt fly, regardles of how great you think a brand is.

06-28-2004, 08:07 PM
Edud, there is a old saying, If it aint broke....
As long as there is a strong demand give the customer what they want. All the $$$ in the world won't help a weak brand survive, just ask
AB or Coke about their energy drinks. If the demand for an alternative is there operators will try it to increase sales. Bartenders want products that make them $$$, they don't care how as long as there is $$$$$$.

06-28-2004, 10:03 PM
I understand that.... but facts are facts and most people do not add energy to their drinks. If you ask them why they will tell you that RB taste like crap! There are people that order RB but most do not and that is because many don't like how it mixes or taste!

Please more customers and sell more drinks by having a great tasting alternative!

04-29-2008, 09:34 PM
Hello Everyone,

I ran across this thread and what an interesting array of opinions. I am by no means a bar owner but I can tell you that I am a professional patron. Over the years it's been neat to see the change in times and the competition arise in all types of liquor or mixing products. Everyone seems to want to find a way to break into a market that one company or another controls.

As a loyal patron to bars and night clubs all over my area over the years, it's been disturbing to see what has transpired in the energy drink area. Personally, I like Seagrams 7 and if I order a 7n7 and the guy gives me some crappy whisky on tap or in a call row, I will blow a lid on the bartender.

If the bars took one minute to sit down and realize that it's not all just about them it could be an eye opener. They have customers that pay their bills and if they really took the time to look into how much business, money, or different choices people have to make because of their cheap thinking, I think it would effect them.

Everyone is entitled to try and make money and I have no problem with a say, "Roaring Lion" in a can or such. Can product is based on quality as is my bottle of Seagrams 7. Personally, I like Red Bull with mixed drinks better because I know it's a good quality. Actually, recently I was at a night club and they had some stuff on a tap called Whiplash or Banzai or some horsecr--. I asked for a Red Bull and Ketel One (spelled correctly this time :-). She started to pour and I let her finish. I then asked her, what did you just pour? She said its our energy drink on the gun. I said, what type? She said, uhh, not sure. I said you have got to be kidding me! Your going to charge me 6.50 for some bogus crap on a gun that was warm because they don't have a cold plate. I exploded!

She then offered me another energy drink they had in a can called Hype Energy MFP. I said can I taste it, and wow, I was hooked. She said it was made with fruit juice and it mixed with their whole bar because of it's contents. She also said it's made them sell so much more different types of alcohol. Amazingly, I was so impressed with the product I ask for it everywhere.

Point of the matter is, she admitted that at least 50 percent of her customers complain about BNB drinks and feel forced to drink it so that is why they took on Hype. She said the bar owner was complaining that Hype was cutting into their BNB profits because so many people where preferring Hype over their bag crap that was warm. You have got to be kidding me right?

This whole discussion is very interesting because we have various people that feel the same way and one guy that is trying to defend his position on bartenders not opening cans. Who cares, they get paid by me ordering drinks. I want something good gosh darn it, not something that is making the bar more money because they don't care about it's patrons. Bottom line is, people will chose where to go and what they want even though the bar owner doesn't think so.

The sad part is this. How do I know where their water supply is coming from, is the mixing agent correct? is the CO mix right, is it outdated, and is it cold or warm? The stuff is eating through the lines at bars that I go to and hear the owners complaining. If Roaring Lion or whomever it is this week in the box doesn't run new lines they use the soda lines, and the agents are eating through the lines to cause leaks. Who pays for that? Now it's Coke's fault for faulty lines for crying out loud. What's happening to your stomach when you drink it then.

Enough rambling! I just feel that if more and more people had any knowledge at all of what they were putting in their bodies from gimmics like this, it would hurt the bars that chose that route. Spread the word, help your friends understand the issues in line with it. I sure as heck don't want to drink the garbage. I'll stick to my 7n7 or my new found favorite mixer Hype Energy.

Good luck to all and sorry for taking up everyone's time. Have a bomb, it will make you feel better.

04-29-2008, 09:49 PM
You had me until you typed "Kettle One."

04-29-2008, 10:05 PM
I'm entitled to a typo....now and then. That's why I like my 7.

04-30-2008, 03:22 PM
kettle ones ok

05-01-2008, 10:16 AM
Hello Everyone,

The sad part is this. How do I know where their water supply is coming from, is the mixing agent correct? is the CO mix right, is it outdated, and is it cold or warm? The stuff is eating through the lines at bars that I go to and hear the owners complaining. If Roaring Lion or whomever it is this week in the box doesn't run new lines they use the soda lines, and the agents are eating through the lines to cause leaks. Who pays for that? Now it's Coke's fault for faulty lines for crying out loud. What's happening to your stomach when you drink it then.


If this is what You think everytime you order a drink and the mixer comes from a gun perhaps you should drink your whiskey/blend straight.

Furthermore, do you honestly think that a guy ordering fermented potatoes(old school) mixed with caffeine and sugar gives a damn about wht he is really putting into his body at that point and time.

And what "agents" are eating through the lines? I see nothing other than a mildly higher caffeine content in ED's than that of sodas. The citric acid in some sodas could be the culprit.

05-01-2008, 10:17 AM
kettle ones ok

I thought you were under 21. How would you know about Kettle One?

Coco Rico
05-01-2008, 10:56 AM
Not sure if anyone else has seen this yet, but it just came out in today's Chicago Tribune. Apparently, Red Bull won another settlement against a bar that was passing off a Bag in Box product as Red Bull. What makes this different is that Red Bull was awarded almost $600,000... That's got to be some kind of record.


Chicago nightclub to pay for serving fake Red Bull energy drink -- chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-thu-red-bullmay01,0,5083163.story)