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pdxbevman
10-04-2004, 07:53 AM
As I read the posts all seem to agree that there is a glut of energy drinks available. In your opinion, why is it that no one can take on RB to capture a strong #2 selling energy drink. I see many try but none really succeed in being a dominate contender. It seems they come out strong than just fade. Any ideas?

bigbottom
10-04-2004, 09:04 AM
There's plenty of reasons why. But the real story should be how to take this category beyond RB. For most entrepreneurs its easy to put it in the same package similar formula and hope they get distribution. Well, the truth is most if not all distributors have a DC full of the junk and are just waiting for someone or something inventive to come along. Not much new has sparked the craze quite the way RB did in quite some time. The only way to make it happen it to evolve the category into other realms of beverages I believe.

Energydude
10-04-2004, 10:03 AM
Well..... have you heard nothing I have said?
Many distributors are trying to compete with RB with products that are too simular to RB.

Folks let me wake you up a bit....RB IS NOT A GOOD PRODUCT ... NOT FROM TASTE, LOOKS OR SMELL!

SumPoosie has done so well against RB because it is so different. The glass bottle and real ingredients scream quality and the taste and look is far better than anything on the market.

If you want to compete and win against RB right now the only thing that does is SumPoosie !!!!

If your sales people can't sell SumPoosie in a bar...... time to find new salespeople!

toby1
10-04-2004, 01:36 PM
wow!!
SP is really competing with RB.

WITH THAT "less than 1% market share".

Im sure that RB is putting together a team to counter this explosive drink hitting the market by storm!

I mean come on...SP is in Spencers and sex shops around the country collecting dust.

RB is kicking themselves in the A$$ for not penitrating this untapped market!

Way to go eDUD! congrats on your .8% of the marketshare!

pdxbevman
10-04-2004, 03:17 PM
I can't see SP becoming mainstream, as no retailer in his right mind would allow that in their coolers. So, that being said, the only market for SP is bars and novelty shops. I'd be more interested in finding something to add to the mainstream energy category. Every beverage out there has competition, real competition, except the energy drink category. Whats up with that?

Coke04
10-04-2004, 03:41 PM
I'm sure that RB is putting together a team to counter this explosive drink hitting the market by storm!
LMAO

Ron Swedelson
10-04-2004, 08:09 PM
Rockstar has held on to #2, but with about 1/3 of RB's volume in the US (they are not worldwide like RB). It does go with marketing and quality. RB has teams devoted to just educating the customers on what RB is. They dont just hand out samples, they explain what the drink is and does. They make sure they are seen and known. And put on full blitzes when they enter a market and spare no money on advertising on TV and radio and events. A drink like SP will never get close to that point. It may look better, and taste better, and open up more conversation, but there is no way to market that mainstream to compete. Even Adrenaline Rush and AMP, they only have a very small percentage of the market. A company has to devote time and money to make their drink work and not come off as a me too. RB came out first and with a big bang. Rockstar brought it to a new level with the 16 oz can. That is why RB and RS are #1 and #2

Energydude
10-05-2004, 01:57 AM
I have distributed products for many years and never has any product been as easy and has made me as much money as SumPoosie. People are looking for something new... RB is tired and SumPoosie is unique.

A great product with great Bottle Models.... what more could you ask for?

pdxbevman
10-05-2004, 09:31 AM
EDUDE, what other brands do you distribute or are you exclusive to Thinkpink/SP?

bigbottom
10-05-2004, 09:42 AM
Blah! Blah! Blah! You have been on this soap box for sometime now and yes I have read most of the words you have said, but after a while they all sound like a broken record and it is all garbage. You are saying you are different, you are saying you are this and you are that! Get a life or get on with something meaningful. SP will not succeed in the main stream network other than being a niche player for the same reason whoopass did not and Jones had major money, distribution and infrastructure behind it and that is it is offensive in everyday placements. So stick to your titty bars and shut the hell up. Post on all the porn sites if you really want some business. Americans love porn. In the quite depths of there own home and in secluded clubs where no one knows their name. Change your strategy and you may have something but main stream it is not.

Energydude
10-05-2004, 10:04 AM
Funny thing.....EVERYTHING you just said is exactly what the said about Playboy Magazine 50 years ago!

The beverage business is about making money pure and simple. Many have tried to put something up against RB and most have failed. SumPoosie beats RB every time. Bars that sell both will tell you its not even close!

Think I am full of it .... try it yourself!
SP beats RB every time!

I have never given a club 3 thousand dollars to throw RB out of a club..... RB has attempted so many times I can't even count.... So who has the better product???

They are not paying to help promote their product they are paying to keep others out.....It's called "RESTRICT OF TRADE" in legal terms.

toby1
10-05-2004, 10:06 AM
AMEN Brother Bigbottom!!! AMEN!!!!

eDUD really needs to bring something new, cool, innovative, unique, and cutting edge to this board. SP and TP and PAW BIB just aint cutting it anymore. Its becoming the same ole same ole.

Hell you would think that SP needs to be in costco it becoming so bland. Its already worn out its "newness" in spencers.

In my opinion, SP is so turn of the century.
Its just not cool anymore. I mean Pepsi is putting women on the side of cans now. You now can buy the Asian non-carbinated RB in glass bottles. Look at 7up, they now have a pink cola.

SP is not cool anymore, to bad it didnt make it to the mainstream that might have saved the line.

In six months to a year SP will be nonexistant, RB will still be in glass, pepsi will have riddin the sex marketing train to the end, and 7up will disco the pink due to lack of sales.

Time to fall back and punt, huh eDUD?

Ron Swedelson
10-05-2004, 08:47 PM
Edude, please show me the AC Nielsons for your area. I know just in the 2 counties out here (Alameda/Contra Costa) RB sells about 35-40K a month in cases. Add in San Francisco and San Jose and that number goes up to about 70-80K a month. Now if you are saying in a few bars SP outsells RB, thats fine, Im sure that may be the case. I had some stores were BAWLS outsold Coke 20 oz. But to say it will out sell RB anywere, well then why isnt it everywere?

mm
10-05-2004, 09:11 PM
To answer pdxbevman97060 briefly and to the point:

The energy drinks market is a branded market.

That's the main reason RB has been unbeatable...they created the market.

mm


Originally posted by pdxbevman97060:
As I read the posts all seem to agree that there is a glut of energy drinks available. In your opinion, why is it that no one can take on RB to capture a strong #2 selling energy drink. I see many try but none really succeed in being a dominate contender. It seems they come out strong than just fade. Any ideas?

pdxbevman
10-05-2004, 11:05 PM
Thanks for your input mm! The soda pop market is branded, yet there isn't such a lopsided market share between #1 & #2. The beer market is branded, yet very competitive. What would it take to make the energy market more balanced in market share between #1 RB and a #2? Before RB came to the US there were other energy drinks, but RB took that category to the next level and no one has ben able to really capture a true #2 national ranking.

Energydude
10-05-2004, 11:33 PM
Ron.... what I am saying is that in places where they are both sold SumPoosie beats RB time and time again.

Secondly, I am saying there is no real #2 because RB often uses tactics such as exclusive contracts in return for money and product.

toby1
10-06-2004, 12:36 AM
""Secondly, I am saying there is no real #2 because RB often uses tactics such as exclusive contracts in return for money and product.""

eDUD...UR AN IGNORANT BAFOON!
You have no idea what or how or to what extent RB does to protect its share in the market! NONE!!!
People here are so sick and tired of you pushing your opinions here on everyone as FACTS! Just to make your lil dust collecting, outdated, obnoxious, offensive, girly drink sound better!

Have you ever gone on RB site and looked at all the events they sponser? all the ATHELETS? all the contributions they take part in....well thats not published due to Deitrichs modesty. How about all the motorsports that RB is a part of? Yes even NASCAR is one now!

I have said this many times before and Ill say it again..........
"A MAN IS ONLY PROVEN STUPID/IGNORANT/ETC. WHEN HE OPENS HIS MOUTH AND REMOVES ALL DOUBT!"

Congrats again eDUD...you have proven to us again.

sorry everyone for that "put in place". but hey it kinda answered a question...until a company wants to sink that kind of money into brand awareness like RB has done/doing/and will continue to there will never be but these lil wanna bes out there.

Energydude
10-06-2004, 09:11 AM
Toby I am not going to stoop to your childish level. RB's tactics are simple give the club a few tables, a few chairs, and then write up this bogus contract telling the club they are exclusive.

If RB is so big and bad why do they have to write up bogus contracts ATTEMPTING to keep everyone one else out????

bigbottom
10-06-2004, 09:17 AM
There is a smudged of truth about the branded issue but the cold hard facts are a race for placement and share of the distributors share of mind and as far as #2 there are two brands that have clearly defined themselves and have the distribution, infrastructure and money to back them up. Oh ya the numbers support the argument for Rock Star and Monster. This of course is excluding the Pepsi brands of which is a whole different playing field.

As far as the exclusive contracts by RB. This is no big surprise read the real thing by Constance L Hays. Pepsi learned this first hand by the people at Coke who by the way have mastered the art of controlling the market through these types of contracts. It's a reality in the business.

E-dude grab your computer go state to state and look up every novelty shop, adult book store, strip club and that includes those that sell on line partner with all of them and promote it like hell their and you will have a brand that does several million. But to be so arrogant and have the audacity as to continuously compare yourself to RB is just insane.

Not on this planet. Stop complaining and get to work and let your actions do the talking. So next time I go to a titty bar I will have one.

Energydude
10-06-2004, 09:52 AM
Look... I realize SumPoosie is never going to be as large as RB and frankly, I think corporate could care less. Believe me they are doing just fine as am I. It is an east product to sell and I make 12 bucks a case so I am very happy.

The question was asked why is there no real #2 and the answer is because for now they have been allowed to bully club owners and out spend other brands for club space.

It's just a matter of time before someone takes them to court. Like I said before... if they are so wonderful why do they pay money to keep others out???

drpep
10-06-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by toby1:

How about all the motorsports that RB is a part of? Yes even NASCAR is one now!
No its not.

toby1
10-06-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by dr pepperman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by toby1:

How about all the motorsports that RB is a part of? Yes even NASCAR is one now!
No its not. </font>[/QUOTE]Dr PEPPERMAN....Yes it is. Have you ever heard of Robby Gordan? Hes a driver for RCR.....#31...the Cingular Monte Carlo.....

He also has his own racing teams.....sponsored by whomever......RED BULL.
http://www.robbygordon.com/artman/publish/cat_index_11.shtml

RunWithDaLilGuy
10-06-2004, 04:48 PM
maybe DPman thought that he meant like, a full-out REDBULL car or soething, like the coors light or goodwrench cars

Ron Swedelson
10-06-2004, 08:11 PM
So Edude, you are saying on-premise accounts there is no #2 drink. In the up and down the street accounts, RS is that #2. Edude, you complain about saying RB uses contracts to be exclusive, which you say is wrong. But should Coke who gives colleges millions allow Pepsi to be sold there? Or should Pepsi allow Coke to be sold in KFC's? You have to remember, its the owners of the clubs and bars and stores who agree to this, not someting forced at gun point.

Energydude
10-07-2004, 01:02 AM
Coke and Pepsi openly bid for exclusive contracts.

What RB is doing is in legal terms is called restrict of trade.

They are giving cash and free product to club owners to keep out competition.

The practice is illegal plain and simple.

If it were allowed Budwieser would be the only beer sold in bars.

The point is not whether club owners are being forced to take the money or not.... the point is giving cash to club owners to keep others out is not legal.

We all know they do it and we all know it is wrong.

If it is such a great product why PAY bars to keep others out?

I have little respect for club owners that take the pay off and then have RB tell them how to run their club. I have a word for it... Cowards!

Coco Rico
10-07-2004, 01:26 AM
pdxbevman97060
Member # 2088 posted 10-05-2004 11:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What would it take to make the energy market more balanced in market share between #1 RB and a #2? Before RB came to the US there were other energy drinks, but RB took that category to the next level and no one has ben able to really capture a true #2 national ranking.
The soda and beer categories don't make good comparisons with the energy drink biz, however, isotonics do. Look at Gatorade, they absolutely dominate the isostonic category (which they created incidentally) No one has really been able to challenge them because it took so long for any viable competition to truly step up. And Gatorade was allowed to quietly cement their position on top of the category. Basically, if Gatorade no longer exists, neither will the isotonic category - that is how so deeply entrenched they are.

Red Bull is the same way. They created the energy category as we know it. (They didn't invent the concept of an energy drink, they took the idea from Asia and brought it to the rest of the world.) Yes, there may have been energy drinks in the US prior to their arrival, however, this was already after Red Bull had established their dominance in Europe and a few fly by nights tried to beat them to the punch in the US (which obviously failed)

One day a viable #2 may emerge, but I don't think it will be Rockstar. Anyone who pays attention to the national energy drink trends can see that the growth of 16oz energy drinks has stabilized somewhat and now they are fighting amongst themselves for share. There is practically a 3 way tie for the #2 spot between Monster, Rockstar, and Sobe No Fear (if you can believe it.) I know that regionally some dominate over others (like Rockstar in the West coast), but nationally they are almost dead even.

Now take that and look globally, where almost 1,000 different energy drinks exist, fighting over little bits of share in over 100 countries. There is no consistent #2 in any of those countries either, the only constant being Red Bull at #1 - and almost everyday another competitor that's strong in another country enters the race in the US continually shifting the balance of share among all those competitors straining to grab hold of the same few share points.

With the growth of the 16oz has come the slow but steady demise of just about every viable 8oz competitor to Red Bull (look at Amp, Adrenaline Rush, 180, KMX, etc.) However, Red Bull has maintained strong with their share and has been roughly 60% above their numbers for last year.

I think there will always be a glut of energy drinks, I mean come on, it's so cheap to come up with another me-too item. However, I think the true players have given up and are waiting for the next beverage innovation to come along... Meanwhile, Red Bull quietly chugs along cementing their spot at the top of the heap.

CR

Coco Rico
10-07-2004, 01:55 AM
E-Dude,

Still crying over spilled milk? What I think is the funniest is that you almost only talk about Red Bull and e drinks in relation to the bar world. Which really just reinforces how out-dated you are.

An open bidding process? You act like you have the resources to begin with to compete with a company like Red Bull, how cute...

The reality is that those "exclusive" contracts are only worth the paper they're printed on and the bar owners choose (choice being a very important theme here) to abide by them because they like the profitability and support that Red Bull and pretty much only Red Bull can give them (yeah, and by 'support' I mean a little bit more than t-shirts, a couple skanks handing out samples, and little pink stickers on the floor.)

The truth of the matter is that if you truly had such a great product and were able to truly impact a bar owner's business the way Red Bull can, that bar owner would tear up that "contract" and there would be very little that Red Bull could do about it. I guess it's just a lot easier to blame big bad Red Bull for the relative lack of success your products have seen, than on yourself.

Bottom line, so a couple of bars kicked you out, or just don't want to serve your product - so what. You have hundreds of thousands of other retailers and c-stores, and liquor stores, and grocery chains, and independent groceries, and mass merchandisers, and vend operators, and so on and so on that you could be approaching with your product that don't have a so-called "exclusive" agreement with Red Bull.

Why don't you spend your time attacking those outlets? Oh that's right, because the bars (and Spencer's, let's not forget Spencer's) are all you have because mainstream outlets would never authorize Sum Poosie, Think Pink has marginal staying power, and you can't trick consumers into buying your BIB because when they have a choice in the store they choose Red Bull 60% of the time followed by Monster, Rockstar, etc...

It really is kind of sad to see someone with so much conviction be so absolutely clueless about what they are talking about...

CR

bigbottom
10-07-2004, 10:07 AM
Wow! Well, put. Now this is somebody who knows the business. E-dude it's time to print this off and read it well. Because this advise is some of the best FREE advise you will get on the subject.
Cheers

drpep
10-07-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by toby1:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dr pepperman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by toby1:

How about all the motorsports that RB is a part of? Yes even NASCAR is one now!
No its not. </font>[/QUOTE]Dr PEPPERMAN....Yes it is. Have you ever heard of Robby Gordan? Hes a driver for RCR.....#31...the Cingular Monte Carlo.....

He also has his own racing teams.....sponsored by whomever......RED BULL.
</font>[/QUOTE]Robby Gordon the driver is sponsored by Red Bull not the Cingular car. Show me a Red Bull logo on it. Show a mention of Red Bull on the RCR site. Whoops you can't you've been banned. His helmet has Red Bull logos,RCR does not own that. His off road team is not Nascar. You may think you know the energy drink business but don't mess with a longtime Robby Gordon fan.

[ 10-07-2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: dr pepperman ]

Energydude
10-07-2004, 12:26 PM
Coco you have no idea what you are talking about.

I was approached in 1997 by RB to distribute the whole state of Ohio if I bought ONE PALLET!!!

RB approached club owners FIRST !!! Why ??? Because they wanted to make the product cool!

When it first came out it was COOL to mix it with Vodka it was the thing to do.

So don't try to pass your BS on me Coco it doesn't fly. The FACT of the matter is these WORTHLESS contracts are an attempt by RB to keep out competition and the giving of cash and product to these clubs to keep others out is not only wrong...... it is illegal.

Need I say more....

mildogg
10-07-2004, 07:01 PM
red bull does not pay cash to bars. there are structured free case deals based on volume purchased. shirts, hats, tables, coolers are nothing. the money they make off of free cases is worth much more than contracts. buy 75 cases a month, get 10 free. at five dollars a can multiplied by 24 multiplied by 10 multiplied by 12 months =14,440. they would have trouble getting that much money from coke or pepsi. you could not give away 75 cases of dum poosie a month. i see 150 accounts a week in the third largest market in the country and have not seen a bottle of dum poosie. maybe i should buy some edible underwear from spencers or go to the strip club. your product will never succeed.

Ron Swedelson
10-07-2004, 09:09 PM
all these contracts are set up for the bars to keep or not. They can go with anyone else and buy anything they want, they just give up their right to get their free products. And like mildogg said, if there was a nother great drink that would give the owners a great profit, they would go with them.
But what doest being approached by RB in 97 have to do with anything? Great so they approached you. Your argument keeps talking about on-premis, which is only about 10% of their busines, and even smaller in a lot of markets. So I dont see any BS in that argument towards you abour RB and their contracts or how they established themselves. Your arguments do make you sound bitter. And there is nothing illegal about what they are doing. If you say Coke and Pepsi have open bids, so do the bars. One up RB, see if they take your bid.

mildogg
10-07-2004, 09:12 PM
do you still work for redbull, and where ron

Energydude
10-07-2004, 09:16 PM
Are you trying to tell me RB does not have exclusive contracts that prohibit the clubs from bringing in another competitor???

How many would you like me to post?

It does not even matter if they use cash or product to keep out competition it is wrong and illegal...PERIOD!

mildogg
10-07-2004, 09:17 PM
go badger coke and pepsi for having exclusive contracts with subway and mcdonalds. i want a mountain dew at mcdondalds, too bad. im going to sue and cry on an internet web site

Energydude
10-07-2004, 11:01 PM
Ummmmm...... you didn't address the issue that giving away product to lower cost to keep out competition is illegal!!!

Again... if it were Budweiser would be the only beer sold at bars!

boodoo
10-08-2004, 07:47 AM
Hey E-Dude,

Would you like a "do-over" on that '97 proposition from RB?

Energydude
10-08-2004, 08:41 AM
I have no regrets, I wouldn't want to change a thing if it would effect where I am now.

But if you notice the RB people are getting quiet because they know their bar practices are unfair to competition and in many cases illegal.

Ron Swedelson
10-08-2004, 12:44 PM
In the San Francisco Bay Area mildog...Edude, there are different ways that beverages get what they want. Either at a price average, which RS does...buy 1 @$32 or buy 10 @$29 a case. Or RB, set up volume contracts and pay out when the store has ordered enough. Some just give a buy 3 get 1 free. Its all the same when you look at the bottome line. There is nothing illegal about Coke giving a 7-11 store better pricing on their products when they get their "own" door and have only their products in it. There is nothing wrong with Pepsi or Coke having contracts with BK or MD's or KFC to only have their product sold there, there is nothing wrong with giving a college 2.5 million to have their name on it and only sell their drinks there, there is nothing wrong with RB telling a club that if they are exclusive, they will give the club X amount of cases or POS. Nothing at all. You keep going back to beer, but that goes way back in time and many many laws that protect against that. Take the alcohal away, and it would be a different story. There is nothing illegal with what Coke, Pepsi, and RB are doing, nothing. If it were, they would have been lawsuit after lawsuit from 7-up and coke vs pepsi and pepsi vs coke and RockStar vs Red Bull and Roaring Lion vs RB and so on. But there is nothing wrong with it at all. Edude, sorry you cant compete with RB at some locations, thats just the way it goes. move on, there are more stores and more beverages out there. As far as everything being illegal, why dont you go spend money for a lawyer and sue the companies. You could make a lot of money and get your product into so many new locations.

Energydude
10-08-2004, 02:23 PM
Ron you have no idea what you are talking about. Case law has been established and Coke and Pepsi have led the way in their numerous law suits against each other.

THE FACTS ARE: You are not allowed to give away product to gain advantage over competitors. It is illegal.

For example: Pepsi is not allowed to give away product to 7-11 in effect lowering their cost substantially and hindering competition. It is illegal!

RB and their so called contracts are not contracts at all but use them as such to prohibit competition.

We will give you free stuff Mr. Bar Owner and in return we are the only energy drink.... THAT IS ILLEGAL .... if you want to argue go right ahead we ALL KNOW IT IS UNLAWFUL!

I just find it funny that this so called market leading energy drink has to resort to unlawful tactics.

Say what you want there are lots of Pepsi and Coke people on this board. BELIEVE me when I tell you if either one of them started giving away too much product to gain market advantages they would be in court faster than Britney Spears wedding.

EnergyKing
10-09-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Energydude:
Well..... have you heard nothing I have said?
Many distributors are trying to compete with RB with products that are too simular to RB.

Folks let me wake you up a bit....RB IS NOT A GOOD PRODUCT ... NOT FROM TASTE, LOOKS OR SMELL!

SumPoosie has done so well against RB because it is so different. The glass bottle and real ingredients scream quality and the taste and look is far better than anything on the market.

If you want to compete and win against RB right now the only thing that does is SumPoosie !!!!

If your sales people can't sell SumPoosie in a bar...... time to find new salespeople!

EnergyKing
10-09-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Energydude:
Well..... have you heard nothing I have said?
Many distributors are trying to compete with RB with products that are too simular to RB.

Folks let me wake you up a bit....RB IS NOT A GOOD PRODUCT ... NOT FROM TASTE, LOOKS OR SMELL!

SumPoosie has done so well against RB because it is so different. The glass bottle and real ingredients scream quality and the taste and look is far better than anything on the market.

If you want to compete and win against RB right now the only thing that does is SumPoosie !!!!

If your sales people can't sell SumPoosie in a bar...... time to find new salespeople!

EnergyKing
10-09-2004, 01:20 PM
Too bad you have to degrade women to sell your suds. What an original idea!!!! If you are kicking Red Bulls a$% then why are you not NATIONWIDE?

I'd honestly rather be a Bookoo Distributor, someone who has a marketing plan.

Energydude
10-09-2004, 02:26 PM
Let's see where do I start....

Bookoo has little chance of being around in a year. 24oz. Can is way too much to drink and like I said 81 grams of sugar is CRAZY!

Secondly, SumPoosie does better against RB than any other energy drink I know of in nightclubs and bars.

Lastly, corporate is adding distributors all the time and I am sure will be NATIONWIDE in about 2 more years.

And by the way I don't have to write up bogus contracts to keep out competition. When the customer has a choice between SumPoosie and any other energy drink SumPoosie usually wins!

EnergyKing
10-10-2004, 02:06 AM
SO? Why will it take two years to become NATIONWIDE?

Energydude
10-10-2004, 09:21 AM
Sounds like you have taken many beverages Nationwide....... LOL

It is not easy to find good quality distribution.

Many find it hard to believe there is finally a product that can compete and beat RB. Some are so used to trying to sell garbage copycats that they have lost some of their fight.

Remember EnergyKing the race does not always go to the swift.

upinarms
10-10-2004, 07:56 PM
Much like Red Bull revolutionized the 8 oz energy market, Rockstar will most likely start the 16 oz market if it goes national.

Its all about money. RB cashed in early and can afford ludacris marketing campaigns and TV ads. Once Rockstar makes the money they will most likely follow suit.

Energydude
10-10-2004, 08:18 PM
Bookoo is already at 24ozs. what next......
Mega Humungo Energy in a 2 liter PET Bottle???

Yeah who can forget RB's great ad's......

RB gives you wings!!! Didn't Tinkerbell have wings?

Ron Swedelson
10-10-2004, 09:35 PM
Dont Eagles have wings too? 2 lt. I know Wired has a 1 lt., maybe even a 2 lt. Also, if someone wanted 2 bottle of SP to drink (12 oz bottles) you would tell them no, dont drink 2 bottles, its way to much for someone to drink?
Also, I have not heard of any of these lawsuites from Coke and Pepsi out here in CA. And they do give money and products away to be exlusive and to obtain rights to their "own" door in stores. They lower their prices for it, they give the store owners tickets and POS, they hand out checks for it. You say its illegal, I say I see it everyday. Go sue RB or the other companies since you have the most to gain. Also, in RB meetings I hear about Rock Star and even time to time AMP and Adrenaline (they came out with their 4 packs) but not once have I heard from anyone anything about SP. Im sure you have some bars that sell great, just like I did with BAWLS. But I just cant see how you say it beats RB time and time again in every opportunity, yet its not even a blip on the screen, no distributors out here have heard of it, and no one has said anything in any meetings I have ever been to.

Energydude
10-11-2004, 10:43 AM
Message:
I lived in Myrtle Beach, SC for the past 4 years and ran a gentlemans
club
for just over a year. We purchased the Sum Poosie Energy Drink and it
out
sold Red Bull 3 to 1 in our club. Once a customer tasted the beverage,
they were hooked.

I have since moved to the Washington, DC area and have been unable to
get
your product for my restaurant. After describing the taste and the
awesome look of the bottles, most customers beg me to get it in-house.

Can you get me in contact with the distributor in my area or someone
who
can provide the product for me so that I can finally do away with the
Red
Bull display and product.

Thanks from a anxious customer.

Contact Information:
Victor Colbert
vsc65@aol.com
The Living Room
301-808-1356
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Camp Springs MD 20748 USA

Corporate gets messages like this ALL THE TIME RON!!! SumPoosie just doesn't have the coverage a large company like RB has. But head to head when it does happen..... SumPoosie knocks RB on its butt!

Ron Swedelson
10-11-2004, 08:32 PM
Edude, I cant tell you how many messages I got like that when I was with BAWLS and with Jones Soda. Everyone is going to have fans and good accounts. There are accounts were I sell RB and they are not #1. SP is a good brand, but with limited growth. There is no reason you should not be #1 in all Strip Clubs and places like that. Bars, there will be some you out sell all, and others were you do not. I just hate seeing your posts were it says that SP is the best beverage out there and outsells RB and all others everytime. Sometimes, yes, all the times, no. Hopefuly you will get distributors that will give your brand the time it needs and the focus, but I just dont see it being a top 5 contender in the AC Nielson ratings.

Energydude
10-12-2004, 08:00 AM
Who knows Ron .... but that really wasn't my point. My point was that it is the only energy drink that I am aware of that when sold next to Red Bull.... beats RB every time.

You limit the brand because of the name but it belongs where ever liquor is sold. If you sell liquor... you can sell SumPoosie.

When a customer has a choice between RB and any other brand other than SumPoosie RB wins. But when RB goes up agains SumPoosie they lose big time.

mildogg
10-12-2004, 06:08 PM
your dumb

Energydude
10-12-2004, 07:19 PM
Sticks and Stones !!!

Ron Swedelson
10-12-2004, 09:27 PM
I dont think I would have a problem with it if you worded it differently. If you said in a strip club it out sells RB just about every time, or in the bars you service, it out sells RB most of the time, I think I would be ok with that. But to just say it outsells RB every time, then say it may be limited in sales oportunities, I just dont like that. Maybe it should and could be sold were ever liquor is, but outside of a few places here and there, I just dont see it yet. But hey, sell it to the strip clubs, Id probably buy a bottle if it were there. But still waiting for SF distro.

Energydude
10-12-2004, 10:30 PM
I am sure they are looking for a good distributor throughout CA.

shazamm
10-16-2004, 01:17 PM
look rb was first to market and with out thme the whole energy drink maket may not have happen, lets not forget jolt was out in the late 80s with little traction. so thanks RB for opening the doors for SP and sex kola and monster ect

Energydude
10-17-2004, 12:42 AM
Yeah, I want to thank RB for trying to keep out competition by having bar owners sign bogus contracts for money and free product.

Fruity Pebbles
10-21-2004, 02:29 AM
Greetings. I actually work with RB. Can I play, too?

Edude, congrats. You certainly can create quite a stir. You are passionate about your product and that is paramount.

On the issue of paying bars to keep comp out, let me say that this practice really never was aimed at SP. As far as we see it, and I think anyone within reason, we are two completely different products. SP does have a good flavor but it is not anywhere near the ingredient as RB in terms of energy. Our market is clearly different as well.

Now, I am just a stupid ex-nightclub operator who has made the jump fairly recently, but this does give me quite an insight when it comes to the On Premise side of sales. Bars themselves don't care about taste; they want sales! RB sells. They created a demand for this type of libation (45 mil in media advertising last year) and businesses need to meet that. IF RS creeps up, yes, there are incentive based programs to combat it (not that they do not have effective methods as well -- I can't get anywhere near certain accounts because of the monetary incentives which are thrown around.) But these efforts are as a result of too many operators pouring off like-tasting products as Red Bull, another illegal behavior. Happens all the time and this company has taken a few facilities to court and won (even one in SF). As they see it, they created the market and many have followed in their footsteps. This is fine until these are passed off as RB. Naturally, SP could never be mistaken for RB.

This is a problem because when patrons order a Red Bull blaster or Mandarin Red Bull, and are served RS, Red Fuel or Roaring Lion, and it tastes different, these people may never buy RB outside the bar because they do not prefer the taste. Makes sense, no? I know many distributors and sales rep for said companies and can say that they truly do want to create their OWN buzz and do not wish to sell their product under false pretenses (but its not like they are going to complain TOO much...I wouldn't).

Now SP, in my opinion, tastes good. A butt load of sugar in it, but I'd have it over a RB if I were eating pizza. If I was in need of energy, I'd go RB, and it works so well in this area that the perceived taste, for me, is actually amplified.

Outsells RB every time? Okay, your passion has gotten the best of you. I mean, okay, I don't know where your market is so perhaps this is, for arguments sake, true. I can tell you in mine (central and east coast FL) that SP is just not a competitor for us. It’s a gnat. I go into a few accounts out of literally hundreds and yes, they like SP. A few of those serve us with SP now, but a few simply will not (these few are gentleman’s clubs). A few. I consider this a monumental success for you in the most sincere of ways! But just look at the marketing, the ingredients, the demo...these are not two competing products. RS and Monster are. They are like-tasting drinks with similar ingredients, as are many others. I think this is why so many on the board have disenfranchised your opinion to be a bit too, er, salemanesque.

Hey, I opened an account just today in Edgewater, a major biker joint. They loved SP and even gave me one to show me how good it tasted (I was a virgin until today). But RB is what they used to get pumped under the rush when they are 6 deep and in the weeds. The barbacks were ecstatic that we finally started to deliver to them. Not to mention Red Bull Blasters simply fly off the shelf. Yet, the employees still felt that there was enough interest in SP to definitely keep it in stock. Great. It’s no threat to me because its not the same drink. Not even remotely.

But they did take 15 cases, a small fridge, bar mats, lights and metal signage (all functional items mind you). Much of the POS items are focused to promote RB with liquors (All your flavored vodkas, Jager, and a myriad of other cocktails). They have the SP girls coming in and wanted us to do the same. We don't do that...not our approach...no biggie. It SELLS anyway, with a vast number of other products which increase the bottom line, and that’s all they care about.

Anyway, I tried very cautiously not to upset anyone here. No bogus facts. No banner waving. Just some insight into this thread from someone who would know.

Dr Pepper man: your facts are correct for the most part. Good homework.

...Until next year that is. ;)

shazamm
10-21-2004, 07:22 PM
i think RB did a great job of opening up the market space..Fruity Pebbles i think you should try some sexkola..let me know what you think.. peace

mildogg
10-21-2004, 07:49 PM
ya edude, redbull loses against sumpoosie everytime. you cant actually take yourself seriously

pdxbevman
10-22-2004, 06:17 PM
Did snapple invent the bottled flavored tea category? I remember when they controlled the market. Then along came SoBe...and at least in the NW they took over. SoBe has the market here. Watch your back Red Bull, there maybe something on the horizon. tongue.gif

mildogg
10-22-2004, 07:05 PM
you people just dont get it, in chicago red bull is the number one sku in all petroleum and convinence stores. Ahead of pepsi 20 oz and coke 20 oz. just think about that before you say edude that dum poosie outsells redbull everytime. just look at the neilsons, those numbers are from september. its not even close. No competitor sixteen ounce or bigger can even sniff redbull.

Ron Swedelson
10-22-2004, 07:19 PM
In nor cal, according to neilsons, only 20 oz coke out sells RB, and not by much at all.

Fruity Pebbles
10-22-2004, 10:00 PM
More power to you! I encourage it! Naturally, more competition begets more marketing and even more push to be, and remain, #1. To be quite frank, this is what continues to pay my mortgage.

Look, I truly like being with a winning team at this point. Will it always be this way? Dunno. Didn't Rome think they would be a major empire forever? Yeah. But hey, I am truly capable at finding work elsewhere if we are ever crushed in the market.

Yet, I have to say this: remember the Cold War? Better yet, remember how it was won? Quite a parallel here if you catch my drift. The USSR was basically outspent in attempting to keep up to par militarily with the US. They went bankrupt.

Now, I encourage anyone to partake in this dialogue, but isn't that what could feasibly happen when smaller Co's attempt to outspend, out promote and outsell an entity who has, lets face it, the drive, intelligence and the cash to remain well into #1 status?

Yes, SOBE is a Pepsi baby. Got it. But would even a monster like Pepsi put forth the effort, cash and energy to attempt to compete 1 on 1 with a company as big as RB? Not being sarcastic here...I'm serious (and at this point, if I have to remind or educate anyone of just how ridiculously rich, saavy and powerful this company is, then it is no wonder some feel we are on the same level of an operation called "Sum Poosie"). Feel free to add your two cents.

OR...might the folks at the top of the pyramid of non-RB energy drink Co's realize that merely having a slice of the energy drink pie meets the quotas they are looking for? RB opened the market up. Perhaps no company ever truly feels they can dominate this field now. But if they generate a small margin of market profits that RB created, then they are happy.

Just my thoughts. Chime in.

Energydude
10-23-2004, 05:30 PM
The facts are this Pepsi and Coke are much larger than RB. The two combine for 30 billion a year in sales. RB is a fly on their butt.

If Coke wanted to they could come out with a .49 cent 12oz. can of energy and drag RB right into the dirt. The fact is they simply do not care because RB does not effect their core business.

Coke sells more in a week than RB does all year!

Ron Swedelson
10-23-2004, 07:24 PM
Coke sold about 15 billion last year. Was that all from the sale of 20 oz. coke? No. That was from the combination of all their drinks in all sizes and flavors. RB, as a company outsells almost every one of Coke or Pepsis brands one-on-one. To think that Cokea nd Pepsi dont want a bigger piece of the 1+ billion dollar energy drink market is being stupid. To think that Coke can come out with something for 50 cents and take RB to the ground is stupid as well. There is a reason they do spend money on the brand and marketing, but they are limmited. At the end of the day their investors want them to spend more time on their 15 billion dollar soda sales than the 1 billion dollar energy drink market.
I dont know why you and every energy drink out there thinks they can just bring down RB by selling a cheaper drink. RB may fall one day if the energy drink market ever falls, but to say a cheaper company or coke or pepsi will take them out with a cheaper knock off...sorry, go ask the other 100's of companies that have tried and failed.

Fruity Pebbles
10-24-2004, 11:09 AM
Well, THAT certainly got spun out of control. Edude, if RB was ever found to cure cancer, you might claim emphatically that RB nefariously puts chemotherapy doctors out of work!

Thanks for filling me in that Coke and Pepsi were larger than RB because, you know, that never even crossed my mind. Perhaps we could go back to my post and read it a bit more carefully. You, like, insulted me. I am sending you my therapy bill.

What I meant, and let me spell it out, is that (and Ron subtly addresses this) 100% of their marketing goes into their energy drink. Coke and Pepsi have other fish to fry. Lets not confuse all of their products, and the many competitors of those products, with the segregated energy drink market. Coke, Gatorade, water, milk, non-E beverages et all do not phase the energy drink market in ways that concern RB (solely an E-drink), so arguing that any Co with multiple skus has more $ than RB is a non-issue.

It is what they can afford to spend on energy drink marketing that is the issue (and if anyone has those numbers, I'd enjoy that).

Ron, yes, it would be foolish to assume that Coke and Pepsi don't want more out of this market, I just hope you understood that the issue I was pertaining to was striving to become number #1 and all that would be involved (primarily costs) with such a coup.

I think we all can agree (at least some of us) that cheaper E-drinks, hoping to cater simply to the money issue, don't stand up to the many processes and marketing which, for instance, help to put RB well at the top of this market for now. Good marketing defies consumer finance. The mind can be far more fallible than the wallet.

Energydude
10-24-2004, 11:51 AM
Sorry but like I said RB is not even a fly on Pepsi or Cokes butt. Together they do 30 billion in sales do you really think they are terribly concerned with a market that is about a billion strong???

Compare 2004 RB numbers to 2005 you will see RB sales flat in 2005.

Energydude
10-24-2004, 12:30 PM
By the way..... if RB is all that....how come they have set up bogus contracts with bars to keep out competition?

You don't see sky vodka trying to keep out all vodka's.

Fruity Pebbles
10-24-2004, 05:42 PM
Here's how it works: You suggest something, I counter. If you disagree with what I have said, you counter that argument, not another one. It's actually quite basic.

You argue like a child and I have little time to be continually repetitive with you. I want to learn from this board and you have done little but act like your smalltime product, albeit a decent drink in it's own right, is the king of libations. Grow up.

Contracts are not "bogus" and are had with RS and 69 as well as RB. If your small time Co had the capital for contracts, they would do the same so get off your proverbial cross.

And before you, once again, say how much better SP is than RB, please consider that it is not even being discussed as the topic here. Also, actually READ the posts and you will find your answers are most often answered as best they can be.

Man, did some dude in a Red Bull truck run over your cat or something?

Energydude
10-24-2004, 07:27 PM
No I find the product to be just plain bad and built on the back of people's ability to drink even more liquor!

RB is not a good product, not by color, taste or mixability.

Does it sell well....so far but so does McDonlads cheeseburgers but that doesn't make it a great cheeseburger.

RB is a foreign product that uses unfair trade practices to grow its brand. That is my opinion and you are welcome to yours. The facts are this RB distributors use unfair practices to keep out competition.

You say others do it too......LOL!!! RB invented it! Hey Mr. Bar owner I will give you all this free stuff if you keep out competition......what a joke!

Granted you have money but your product is a joke and the next few years will show that. Compare 2004 to 2005 and you will see!

pdxbevman
10-24-2004, 08:00 PM
The topic was, or is, marketing strategy. It seems like the focus to get a part of the market share is more product, 16 oz or 24 oz, for about the same as RB's 8.3 oz. Problem i see is 16 oz of energy drink is hard to stomach. Monster tastes like syrup, RS tastes like vitamins.

Energydude
10-24-2004, 08:58 PM
The topic is marketing strategy .... HELLO!!!

Their marketing strategy is to keep out competition by giving away product and writing bogus contracts.

It is hard for most to keep up with RB because it is RB who is using unfair tactics to keep others out.

Ron Swedelson
10-24-2004, 10:01 PM
Edude, you said the same thing about RB's sales numbers earlier in the year that 04 was going to be flat. But we all know that was wrong. In 05 I bet they will still be way up, double diget growth. This past quarter, in my area, RB was up almost 140% over last year. Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me, doesnt sound like it is going to go flat either. 1 billion dollars is by far not a fly on the companies butt. If they could increase their sales by a billion dollars, I think they would do it in an instant. So its 1/15th of their over all sales. But divide that by the 50 different skus they have and RB would be right there in the top 5. Again, sounds pretty good to me. I think SP will have its own market and do fairly well in it, if you get the right distributors. But RB with their marketing force, the money they put into advertising, and the core market they have, I see nothing but increased sales for them. Here in the Bay Area, there is about 40% of the population that does not know what RB is. That is a crazy amount of potential customers. And the Bay Area sell about 100K cases per month. RB is a machine, they created this huge market, they will contiune to lead it, but luckily for other companies there is pleanty of room to grab a little slice of it all.

Energydude
10-24-2004, 10:41 PM
If there are people that do not know about RB then they are not a customer. They must live under a rock. RB has enjoyed enormous sales growth in the past. Look for it to flatten in 2005.

RB is a machine that restricts trade. I will be impressed when they are not buying their business.

Fruity Pebbles
10-25-2004, 12:27 AM
Edude:

You relate RB to being "bad" and built on alcohol consumption. Yet, you so devoutly hold SP, a product whose ENTIRE marketing philosophy is built on the exploitation of women and creating the overwhelmingly proud and long-awaited ability for consumers to finally be able to pronounce, "let me get Sum Poosie" to a bartender. How noble.

You claim RB is not a good product, not by color taste and mixability. Okay, that’s retarded. RB practically rules the market. If you truly felt that was the case, and that the billion in sales last year is a result of mass brainwashing of the feeble minded, then there would be no way for you to adequately defend a product whose sole public relations epiphany is "look -- **** and ass on the bottle!"

MacDonalds cheeseburgers ARE delicious! Well, not when you compare them to those you would find in any discernable restaurant bar that claims, like so many, to have the best in town. Any idiot can make one. If it's thick and juicy, it's usually good. Mcdees' doesn't even TASTE like a cheeseburger. I don't know how to describe it, but it aint no cheeseburger when compared to a piece of meat you get in a restaurant. But I buy 'em cause they taste good. They should not even call it a cheeseburger, but that’s just marketing...

...and when you figure out the parallels in that last paragraph relating to actual E-drinks and some pink soda referred to as Sum Poosie, you'll find I didn't entirely switch the subject.

Bro, don't you get it. It IS about money. RB has a lot and they use it to proliferate their product and bottom line. Does SP not do the same? They have less money and are not able to compete in the same ways RB does. Can you say, in all seriousness, that if SP had 70% of the market they would not find alternative ways to slay the competition and stay on top?

Of course they wouldn't. They use sex as a primary tool for sales and that is quite admirable and the stuff of wholesome American standards, fair play, and honest hard work.

I can see you are driven by sales. Come work for RB. It's quite easy most the time. Imagine not having to explain your product to a possible account -- where most greet you and instead of saying, "who are you and what do you want? they say, "Where the hell have you been!"

Energydude
10-25-2004, 12:38 AM
RB got where it is today because it gives people a buzz and enables them to drink more... plain and simple.

Like the ads say RB gives you wings!!! In other words it makes you high!!!

Red Bull is a foreign product that looks bad, taste bad and contains too much sugar and too much salt.

STILL with all that said...... IF THE PRODUCT IS SO GOOD WHY DO YOU HAVE TO PAY CLUB OWNERS TO KEEP OTHERS OUT?

Fruity Pebbles
10-25-2004, 01:18 AM
WHY DOES SUM SODA HAVE TO PUT NAKED WOMEN ON THEIR BOTTLES IF IT IS SO GOOD?

Hint: (because it's pink colored sugar water)

Energydude
10-25-2004, 10:06 AM
Deflection.... I like that ... I guess that is what you do when you can't answer the question.

RB marketing is a disgrace! We all know their commercials are terrible but their field practices of giving away free product and gifts to keep out competition makes me sick.

"We are big bad RB !!! We are the best !!! We sell the most !!! What you really do is this.... RB gives away more product than any other energy drink company in fact they give away more than all others COMBINED!!!

Keep telling me what a great product you have and then tell me why you "have" to give away more product than anyone else.

I'll tell you why..... your product looks and taste like garbage!

Ron Swedelson
10-25-2004, 08:49 PM
Jones soda gives away cases, Rock Star, Hansens, Sprechers, Honest Tea, Cricket Cola, Pit Bull, Monster, Welches, should I go on. Almost every company gives away free cases with purchase. For the most part, RB does not. They have a sample team that educates people about the brand. They do not just hand out cans like others hand out samples, they give a can along with information and explain it. Bars have contracts with RB and do get cases based upon volume, but they have the same with RS, and even Jones had the same contract. Coke and Pepsi do the same thing with many accounts. So if your grip is you feel you have a good product, but dont have marketing to help push it enough, then I am sorry. If a product is good enough, a bar will cary it or a store will, reguardles of their contract, oh unless the busines likes to make lots of money with an item them sells like crazy. Coke does it, Pepsi does it, any company with money to market will do it. Why, because competition is good, but no one wants to open the door to allow everyone else in. I guarentee if a club said, Hey, I like this SP. If you give me one extra case free per month, I will only carry your brand. I bet you would not turn him down. If someone will give you exclusive right, you will take it. Just the same as if SP Corp. said they will have some else sell SP in your same area, you would not be happy. What is another company said, Hey, competition is good and I can sell this brand just as good, let me eat into his profits. Exclusive contracts work for everybody.

Energydude
10-26-2004, 12:06 AM
That is the WHOLE point RON RB does not allow for equal competition. The bogus so called contracts are not contracts at all and stifle competition.

If RB was so wonderful they would not be pushing out competition. The facts are they have to force others out.

Many Many Many times I have had club owners tell me that they were told to get rid of SumPoosie or give me back my RB refrigerator.........

Most have said take your fridge and shove it!

Fruity Pebbles
10-26-2004, 08:10 AM
Not deflection...I was being somewhat facetious with you. But you've been blind from the start so why see it now. And to interpret it as a "deflection", and then say that you actually LIKE that, is it's own self-insult.

Your question is childish, shows inexperience, a severe lack of knowledge on just how this market works, it is solely opinionated and is a derivative from your own non sequitur. The worst I could be doing right now is wasting my time volleying with you, if not merely for the amusement of those who are actually still reading this thread, which by the way, you have completely made a mockery of with your incessant immaturity.

By the time it has taken me to write this post I could have called a Sum Soda account in my territory and kicked you out (which, by the way, is a monthly incentive for me) just by offering bi-weekly delivery of Red Bull, 2 new coolers, bar mats, POS, 4 free cases to start and 8 free tickets to Walt Disney World, Sea World, Euro Disney and Hawaii. In fact, you have given me a new direction in life. When I meet your rep out here I will be sure to drop your name and blame his newfound hardships on you. You're in big trouble, mister!

Ron Swedelson
10-28-2004, 07:16 PM
If you had SP in the RB fridge, then it should be kicked out. I have a couple on premis accounts in my route, one of them even serves roaring lion. We dont have a problem with it, we just tell them dont pass it off as RB. In on premis or off premis accounts, if anything else goes in our coolers, yeah we get mad. We paid for them, they are our coolers for the stores to use. If it was just because the bar has SP, then it sounds like the on premis rep. has something up his @ss. But again, if the bar did sign a contract with RB, then why are you mad at RB. You should be mad at the bar. Its not like RB will not service a store if there is no contract. Ask your bar owners why they sign, dont be mad at RB for presenting it.