PDA

View Full Version : Coke to buy RB !!!



Energydude
11-12-2004, 01:57 PM
Look for Coke to buy RB in 2005!!!

Coke has been taking it on the chin and will not think twice about dumping a whole lot of cash on top of RB's heads!

Coke is looking for a shot in the arm and RB would be a perfect fit.

Where would that leave distributors? Out in the cold maybe but with Coke's distribution the days of the RB mini van may be numbered.

Just my opinion!

Drink
11-12-2004, 02:29 PM
Wow this is big news!I guss they wont even borther with Full Throttle

pdxbevman
11-12-2004, 03:58 PM
E-dude, wanna take odds that that won't happen? When was the last time Coke bought out any beverage company. Would they buy Red Bull global? NOT! :confused:

Energydude
11-12-2004, 04:32 PM
Why not buy RB Global??? They have the money and the desire to grow and growth has not been rampant at Coke!

Coke buying RB would be a good move for Coke!

Topher
11-12-2004, 04:42 PM
Red Bull is not for sale so this thread is irrelevent.

Yes Coke has the money, but Red Bull will not sell it to Coke, nor anyone else.

mildogg
11-12-2004, 05:07 PM
you are so damn ignorant. go away

Ron Swedelson
11-12-2004, 07:47 PM
Wait...didnt Edude go on and on and on about how Coke doesnt care about energy drinks, and that RB's sales insignificant and how Coke would not spend money to waste on the energy drink market....yet all of a sudden they are willing to buy RB...sorry...I like how you jump back and forth though. They bought Odwalla, and Odwalla still runs their own routes. But I am sure Coke wasted a ton of money to get Full Throttle going to throw it all away one a brand like RB that Coke could care less about.

Drink
11-12-2004, 08:39 PM
Well Soda Favorites is now talking about it on their main page

Fruity Pebbles
11-13-2004, 02:07 AM
I really do not understand why so many get worked up over Edudes posts. Even this sight can use the entertainment. Edude, keep up the good work. You keep me coming back for laughs on tap!

pdxbevman
11-13-2004, 12:08 PM
Coca Cola Poised for Red Bull
Takeover in '05




Coca Cola has been secretly gearing up to initiate
a buyout offer for the popular Red Bull Energy
Drink. Declining sales in North America and its own
failure to develop its own energy drink has
prompted Coca Cola to take action. Red Bull
Energy drink is the number one selling energy drink
in North America. The Red Bull buyout is
speculated to take place in mid 2005

from soda favorites

Fruity Pebbles
11-13-2004, 12:30 PM
Well, some secret THAT turned out to be. Everyone knows about this buyout except all of us here at Red Bull. When WILL we take the blinders off?

Energydude
11-13-2004, 07:01 PM
Stranger things have happened... why would they tell you? It does make sense RB would have access to Coke's distribution channels.
Sales would soar with additional outlets.

Ron Swedelson
11-13-2004, 09:09 PM
Edude, then you would have to watch out with your BIB. Coke would probably turn RB into a BIB item as well to go into all their fountain systems in bars.
Your right, anything could happen. I dont see it happening though, but you never know.

Fruity Pebbles
11-13-2004, 11:48 PM
If your original intention for this post was to merely specualate, then I am in good company if I now proclaim that Dirty Dan's Eatible Underwear Co. is slated to buy out Sum Poosie in 2005.

Energydude
11-14-2004, 01:13 PM
Wow Fruity...... Your taking this kind of hard but it still makes sense.

Coke is much larger and doesn't quite understand the energy drink business so why not buy RB.

It is a great deal for both !!! Look for a deal sometime after summer 2005.

Fruity Pebbles
11-14-2004, 10:56 PM
Well I can say I am a bit concerned, yes. If DDEU Co. gains control of Sum Poosie in 2005, assuming they will make it grow as well as their black-cherry flavored thong line, then I could expect to see even more perverts drinking it in the future. Trench coat pervs create about .002% of our demographic. BLAST you Sum Poosie and your pink bubble gum flavored soda! Curses upon curses! :mad:

Energydude
11-15-2004, 11:10 AM
They also mentioned it in the USA Today that Coke and RB would be a good fit. We shall see!

pdxbevman
11-15-2004, 03:43 PM
I read this in some tabloid, the one with a picture of elvis at some retirement home on the cover, that Vivid Video was to buy out SP. A marketing tool would be for the porn stars to all drink a bottle before performing. They would also be the bottle girls. Any one else see this?? :eek:

Drink
11-15-2004, 07:32 PM
Well remember when Coca-Cola said that they would buy Dr Pepper amd we all know what happend with that....

Ron Swedelson
11-15-2004, 08:33 PM
If it happens...great, Ill buy some coke stock some months before. If not, then I still have a job. But even with that, it took Pepsi almost 5 years to fully take over Sobe from all the distributors.

Fruity Pebbles
11-15-2004, 10:48 PM
Well, I read the article which does, indeed, afford one's opinion that the huge success of Red Bull could fit into Coke's slump. Quite an endorsement for Red Bull's enormous growth in the market. What would this cost Coke you think? Anyone? (Edude: any guesses must be well over 30 bucks)

Ron Swedelson
11-16-2004, 08:40 PM
I could not even immagine how much. The brand would cost a ton of money, Hundreds of Millions of Dollars (vary if just domestic or worldwide), plus all the millions it would take to buy out distributors contracts.

PopNutz
11-17-2004, 07:10 AM
Looks like Edud is wrong again! Read this from Bevnet,
http://www.bevnet.com/news/2004/11-16-2004-image_innovations_red_bull_vending_machine.asp

Wouldn't make much since to be in talks with Coke and make a five year deal like this.

Energydude
11-17-2004, 09:32 AM
??? They sign a deal for vending and this is proof there is not going to be a deal with Coke?

Thanks for the hot news Popnut!

Kmart bought Sears today 1 year after coming out of bankruptcy.....anything can happen!

Look for Coke to buy RB in 2005!

Ron Swedelson
11-17-2004, 07:26 PM
I dont know that this would stop Coke if they wanted to buy the brand. They would just have to pay them out just as they would distributors if they wanted to take over controll. I still dont see it happening though. Also, I have seen a Red Bull Vending Machine...not from image innovations, but from Red Bull Corporate...very impresive.

Topher
11-18-2004, 09:53 AM
I have also seen a Red Bull vending machine...in a Yale Univ building...i agree Ron, impressive...

Coco Rico
11-22-2004, 05:46 PM
You're kidding with this right? Why would Red Bull ever sell to Coke? What's the point? Red Bull is fully self funded, is ridiculously profitable and doesn't wan't Coke's bureacracy messing with it's marketing strategy. (There isn't a group of shareholders in the world that would allow Red Bull to spend the amounts of money they do towards all of its brand building programs - which is why Red Bull is privately owned and operated and will remain that way for some time.)

Besides there's something more than money that ultimately motivates Red Bull... it's the desire to build a global brand that will one day compete with the likes of Coke and potentially overtake it. I know it's lofty but that's the plan. 17 years is all it's taken for Red Bull to sell 2+ billion cans in one year... and that's just the beginning. Pretty soon the US alone will pass the billion can mark, and still that's just the beginning... (By the way, Red Bull outsells the entire Coca Cola portofolio in Austria - where it all started)

Anyway, I know that this post really doesn't deserve a response, since E-Dude's just up to his usual antagonizing. Kind of like when he claimed that Red Bull would sell direct to wholesalers and mass merch. completely cutting out their distributors. Guess what... Red Bull just had a massive national meeting in Hawaii, and on top of all their employees being there, guess who else was... representatives from every single one of their distributors in the US. I don't think Red Bull would do that if their plan was to fire them...

Again E-Dude, not a clue, not a clue...

CR

Ron Swedelson
11-22-2004, 07:06 PM
Snoop Dog was also in attendence.

Coco Rico
11-22-2004, 09:09 PM
Yes he was...

CR

booma99
11-22-2004, 09:12 PM
Out of curiosity, what was the theme of Red Bull's meeting?

Energydude
11-23-2004, 07:23 AM
It was a rah rah meeting for all the little RB groupies to sit around and talk about how wonderful RB is and how it will one day take over Coke!!!

Coco you are hilarious! Coke has been going strong for a 100 years and spends more money in advertising than RB does in sales!!!!

Fruity Pebbles
11-23-2004, 08:01 AM
Yeah, "groupies". Every single Red Bull executive, manager and distribution president in this state has been out of town for two weeks! Thats fine, us littler folks go on a Bahama cruise in two weeks. When will these silly foreigners learn that they should not expend so much money prior to a major buyout?

Energydude
11-23-2004, 10:18 AM
Just an opinion Fruity.... RB needs better distribution channels to really mature as a brand.

No one has better distribution than Coke.

It just seems to make sense.

Coco Rico
11-23-2004, 11:18 AM
E-dude,

Actually, on a per SKU basis, Red Bull spends more on advertising than Coke.

And as for Coke having a better distribution network, of course they do, as long as you're one of their core brands. Otherwise, look at poor KMX - they had the "best" distribution and they still tanked, as will Full Throttle...

Maybe Red Bull won't take over Coke, maybe they will, the point is 4 years ago on this very board, no one except a very small minority, ever thought Red Bull would amount to anything. Like you, most people postulated Red Bull's demise, its over-ambitious plans, etc. They said it was a European fad, and that it would never catch on here. And now look where it's gone...

Now people - like you - can't fathom the success and want Red Bull to go away because its existence challenges everything you thought you knew about the beverage industry. Now you've got your me-too brand like everyone else, trying to break into the energy category way too late...

All because you couldn't see the future - and apparently, you still can't...

CR

[ 11-23-2004, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Coco Rico ]

Energydude
11-23-2004, 11:37 AM
Figures don't lie but liar's figure...!

To suggest RB spends more in advertising in any way shape fashion or form is laughable. Like I said, Coke spends more advertising than RB does in sales!

I don't think RB is a fad but I can tell you I think sales will begin to flatten in 2005. RB has had a very nice run but to keep growing strong RB will have to increase distribution and Coke is the perfect fit.

Energydude
11-23-2004, 11:42 AM
I took out this little section of an article for you to read Coco. Need I say more?

Coca-Cola to boost advertising budget by $400 million
Coca-Cola is set to boost its marketing spend by up to $400 million in an effort to rejuvenate and sustain growth rates. The company acknowledged however, that this growth may not be apparent until after 2005 due to challenges in key market areas.

Coca-Cola is set to boost its marketing spend by up to $400 million in an effort to rejuvenate and sustain growth rates. The company acknowledged however, that this growth may not be apparent until after 2005 due to challenges in key market areas.

Following an initial strategic and operational review and an assessment of the company's opportunities and challenges, Coca-Cola's chairman and CEO Neville Isdell and members of senior management have commented on a number of key financial issues.

In terms of reestablishing marketing leadership, to realize the full potential of its brands and generate sustainable growth rates, Mr Isdell has concluded that the company needs to increase annual investment levels on a permanent basis. The review has resulted in a decision for a permanent increase in marketing and innovation expenses of $350 - $400 million

Fruity Pebbles
11-23-2004, 02:35 PM
Edude, question: Do you know what RB spent last year in media advertising?

If you do not answer then I imagine you just don't know or care not to continue down this path.

Energydude
11-23-2004, 04:03 PM
I do have a very good idea of what they intend on spending in 2004. My source tells me that in the United States RB will spend 19 to 25 million on radio and tv ads.

What else would you like to know?

Coco Rico
11-23-2004, 05:04 PM
E-Dude,

If you would actually read before you respond, you would see that I said "per SKU" Red Bull out-spends Coca Cola...

Realistically, Red Bull has 6 SKUs: Red Bull and Sugarfree (single can, 4pk, and 24pk)

In 2004, Red Bull North America's media budget was approx. 65 million.

If you divide Coca Cola's media spend by everyone of their SKUs (please tell me you know what a SKU is) and compare that to Red Bull's spend per SKU, Red Bull out spends Coca Cola "per SKU."

Debating you would be a lot easier if I didn't have to hold your hand through these simple arguments.

CR

[ 11-23-2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Coco Rico ]

mildogg
11-23-2004, 05:09 PM
edude just please go away, nobody liked you

Energydude
11-23-2004, 05:35 PM
Sorry Coco you are simply WRONG!

Coke spends over 1 billion slice it anyway you want.... per sku per anything Coke spends much more.

Secondly, I said 19 to 25 million on "radio and tv" my source says that figure is accurate.

Your 65 million dollar figure I am sure has to do with "other" promotions.

Ron Swedelson
11-23-2004, 07:38 PM
Coke has one of the best distro. channels, that is true. But like it was said, if you are not their core item, they dont care to much. Coke bought out Mad River, were did that go. They bought Odwalla, and they dont touch that because they know it needs its own distro. channel (and not just because it needs to be kept cold). If they bought RB, which I do not see happeneing, I could see them adding it to their network in many markets, but in many other they would need a van team. Coke is very nazi like on their own brands, which is why there is a high turn over rate at coke. So bringing in an outside brand, with all the focus it would need, they would kill a lot of sales. I dont think they would kill it enough to make it fall from the #1 spot, but definatly millions in sales. Pepsi did the same thing to Sobe. I bet that both your preditctions will be false. RB sales will not flatten out, and RB will not be sold in 05.

Energydude
11-23-2004, 07:43 PM
We shall see.

Fruity Pebbles
11-24-2004, 05:04 PM
See, now we are getting somewhere.

What are your "sources" Edude? If you don't answer then I suppose you don't feel it is a strong one or you just don't want to go down this path.

Mega Energy
11-24-2004, 10:20 PM
Word I got was RockStar is looking to sell....Coke maybe?

Energydude
11-25-2004, 08:55 AM
I just saw RockStar in the tiny little 8oz. cans....when did that start?

Mega Energy
11-25-2004, 10:46 AM
8oz RockStar has been out here in the West for 2 years. I should say was out here...it flopped!

Ron Swedelson
11-25-2004, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I still see it in some stores. Even in some of my Safeways. That never made any sence to me. Sell your 16 oz. for $2.19, and a 8 oz. for $1.99. Rockstar made its self the #2 drink because it opened up the 16 oz. market. If they tried to concentrate on the 8 oz. can, they would have to start chasing Hansens Energy in the Nielson raitings instead of RB.

Ron Swedelson
11-25-2004, 12:30 PM
Rockstar would be an item that should sell. Maybe not this next year, but it would make sence. They are with many different distributors, many of whome sell Monster and all the Hansens lines, plus some others. They are not in all markets. Coke would do good with RockStar. It would probably keep them from creating any new energy drink lines, and they could try and take it international if they wanted. Rockstar has amazing numbers (although still very far behind RB), but they have no clear cut distro. network.

Drink
11-25-2004, 10:08 PM
As for Coca-Cola buying Red Bull I'm sure they want to (If Coca-Cola got their way they would alredy have bought Dr Pepper).But it would be very hard for them to buy Red Bull

Energydude
11-26-2004, 07:38 AM
Why? What would be so hard?

Fruity Pebbles
11-26-2004, 10:00 AM
Why not ask your "sources".

Energydude
11-26-2004, 03:37 PM
My "Source" thinks RB will sell!

mildogg
11-26-2004, 05:47 PM
ya and then coke will **** redbull up and sumpoosie will rise to stardom and become the mainstream drink of choice and then it will outsell coke and pepsi, and then just go away

Energydude
11-26-2004, 10:33 PM
LOL...

Ron Swedelson
11-27-2004, 12:37 PM
its harder for coke to buy RB because RB has no interest in selling. Does it mean that a $$ would not change RB's mind, no, but they are not on the market, and are not seeking buyers. If they were only interested in the $$ part, they would have gone public already and raised millions and millions of $$'s.

mildogg
11-27-2004, 08:43 PM
agreed, there is more money to make going public and growing the business then selling. would make no sense, but thats why edude thinks redbull is going to see flat sales in 2003, no wait 2004, no wait 2005, then go direct

Drink
11-28-2004, 12:08 AM
Also why would Coca-Cola buy Red Bull when they told the public that they have a new drink coming called Full Throttle.They didnt pull KMX so they could waite and see if they could buy Red Bull.Now if Coca-Cola discountinued KMX and told the public that they have no replacement then it might be a clue that Red Bull may soon be a Coca-Cola product but for now Coca-Cola's going to stick with Full Throttle and then maybe if it flops then Red Bull may be a Coca-Cola product

Energydude
11-28-2004, 02:53 PM
First of all RB is in business like everyone else to make money. When Coke comes knocking with Billions of dollars RB will sell.

Some companies do not go public Ron because they do not want they do not wish to be placed under a microscope and disclose everything.

As far as flattening sales in 2005 I said it and I still feel that way. RB has enjoyed great numbers the past few years... don't expect those kind of growth numbers in 2005.

mildogg
11-28-2004, 03:06 PM
WHY, YOU HAVE NO REASONS OR PROOF

Energydude
11-28-2004, 03:18 PM
I have several reasons... many people I know no longer drink RB because it upsets their stomach and most simply do not want all that salt.

Secondly, many I talk to say it is simply too expensive and some have just out grown it.

They have had great growth in 2002 2003 and I am sure will have great growth in 2004 don't expect those type of numbers in 2005.

Fruity Pebbles
11-28-2004, 10:01 PM
Okay, so basically, the numbers are on a 15 year upswing but they will now flatten out and Red Bull will bought out by Coke because you know some people who say RB gives them tummy aches?

Do your "sources" eat PBJs while watching Barney?

Energydude
11-29-2004, 08:29 AM
It seems more people of late are giving RB up then starting on it. Not to mention it is getting very expensive.

I think RB has peaked in the US in 2004.

We shall see.

Ron Swedelson
11-29-2004, 07:38 PM
Thats funny because my area is up over 30% from last year. They must be getting tiered of it. So now how do you say that people wont buy RB anymore because its to expensive, then you go out and sell you Energy drink to stores who would have to price it higher than RB. And dont just say your Walgreens because that is not in the norm for RB pricing. You said 04 would have flattened sales, and it hasnt. Most people get stomach aches with energy drinks when they start downing them on empty stomachs, you will get that with about anything with Torine.
As for Coke throwing Billions at RB, they would have to, but I think RB has not positioned themselves to be bought out. Hey, Edude could be right, although his "sources" and his friends that dont drink RB anymore doesnt seem to be enough proof for me. But I dont think he will be right.

Energydude
11-30-2004, 07:57 AM
I never said 2004 would have flattened sales.
I said next year would have flattened sales and I think it will. Many that I know have stopped drinking RB for various reasons. Is it a trend? I am not sure but I think RB will start losing more than it gains customer wise over the next couple of years.

See if your "area" is up 30% in 2005.

pdxbevman
11-30-2004, 02:25 PM
Ron Swedelson
Senior Member
Member # 449

Member Rated:
posted 11-07-2003 02:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pimp Juice tastes ok, but really tastes like 3 parts apple juice, 1 part red bull.
I don't like Red Bull's flavor. I don't like that stores buy into the shelf program for 3 free cases every 3 months, when they can easily make up that money and more if they freed the extra space for other drinks. Plus, it doesnt work on me. Thoes are my reasons for not liking Red Bull, I don't think that makes me a stupid ass, just someone with an opinion.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font>[/QUOTE]Things change :cool:

Ron Swedelson
12-01-2004, 08:01 PM
&lt;---- still dont like Red Bulls flavor. Can't stand it. I have since tried Sugar Free and enjoy it. Being on the other side now, I understand more why they have their contracts and why stores go with the programs, although it does not work for every store. Competition is good. You cant work for years pushing a bunch of brands, then one day work for #1 and just say "yeah, all that other stuff is crap." There are stores I have told they should carry Pimp Juice, even Jones products.

pdxbevman
12-01-2004, 09:23 PM
Ron, you are an honest man!

Ron Swedelson
12-02-2004, 08:11 PM
That is what I strive for. I may not always be right or popular, but I will be honest with what I have to say.

MD121310
12-08-2004, 06:54 PM
i agree with mildogg.

[ 12-08-2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: MD121310 ]

Energydude
12-09-2004, 11:53 AM
RB has had great growth in 2001,2002,2003,and 2004 look for sales in 2005 to flatten out. Selling out to Coke for a few Billion seems to make sense. We are all in business to make money and a few Billion under the pillow looks very nice. With Cokes distribution RB would grow rapidly.

pdxbevman
12-09-2004, 05:52 PM
Where did you get the $$$$billion number. That would be way over priced! Coke isn't stupid.

Energydude
12-09-2004, 07:28 PM
There not stupid but they have the cash and they could cross brand. A few billion to Coke is nothing they have nothing but cash but have not seen any growth to speak of and the stock price is stuck in neutral.

pdxbevman
12-09-2004, 10:42 PM
They have stockholders to answer to. What are the worldwide sales of RB?

mildogg
12-10-2004, 07:20 PM
contrary to what you think, redbulls asking price would be at least several billion dollars. You can downplay the signifigance of redbull all you want, but they outsell all 200 energy drinks combined. lets remind everyone that everything coke or pepsi or cadbury or dr pepper seven up buy goes to ****

Energydude
12-12-2004, 10:07 AM
I believe several billion is what I said and would be nothing for Coke to spend. Coke has billions in cash right now and are looking to spend.

Drink
12-21-2004, 06:43 PM
Well remember when Coca-Cola said they would buy Dr Pepper and we all know what happend there

EnergyKing
01-05-2005, 12:49 AM
Ron I think its cool you like others besides Red Bull what do you think of Go Fast? I think its awesome.
http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/gofast/index.asp

Energydude
01-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Look for Coke to make a play by summer. Coke moves slow and so has their stock the last few years.

Ron Swedelson
01-06-2005, 04:30 PM
I cant say I am a fan of the way Go Fast looks, and I have not tried it either. So I cant honestly comment to much on it. It is mainly avalible at the cash and carry out here so I dont see it turn up much in stores.

Edude, I am sure Coke will make a play by summer, just wont be on Red Bull.

World Beverage
01-06-2005, 10:23 PM
When will Energydude put down his mask and reveal that:
A: He needs help
B: Has no real job
C: Needs us because we give him life
D: Can not afford medical assistant
E: Must reply to everything or his large status on this board my be questioned
F: JUST GO AWAY LOSER !

Energydude
01-07-2005, 12:41 AM
Wow, from what it sounds like.... you could really use SumPoosie!!! Check out the new girls for 2005 after the Superbowl and let me know what you think.

By the way I could use some help.... well you help paint my boat???

Fruity Pebbles
01-09-2005, 12:56 AM
Edude, please let's get this out of the way so that we all won't have to play a guessing game any longer...just how many items of impressive luxury and excess DO you own?

So far, I see you have a boat and a BMW (not to mention you simply BANK on selling SP). What else do you have that you would like us to know about so that we are not diverted from the subject matter the next time you happen to mention it?

Energydude
01-09-2005, 12:45 PM
I seem to buy all the things that people selling RB cannot afford! ;)

EnergyKing
01-09-2005, 09:44 PM
I cant stand people that make themselves sound like someone they really are not.

Edude probably sells SP out of a trunk of a 1978 Dodge Diplomat with an SP sticker on the window, and lives in a 300 dollar a month studio. ;) Too bad you have to be that way man.

Energydude
01-10-2005, 08:11 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble EnergyKing, but you know what if it makes you feel any better enjoy your fantasy. My point is this... your not going to get rich selling RB. Fact is for an accomplished sales person your not going to make much at all pitching RB.

Fruity Pebbles
01-10-2005, 04:48 PM
Edude, question:

Do you have slicked-back hair?

Energydude
01-10-2005, 05:16 PM
No, I keep a crew cut that way my hair doesn't get messed up when I put the top down on the Austin Healy!

Ron Swedelson
01-10-2005, 07:38 PM
yeah, Ill be sure to tell my morgage broker that even though I signed papers for my new $700,000 house, that I cant afford it because I sell RB...oh wait, yes I can...wow...edude was wronge for once, how crazy is that. I guess selling RB isn't all that bad.

Fruity Pebbles
01-11-2005, 08:28 PM
Ah yes, Austin Healy...the poor man's Mazerati.

mildogg
01-13-2005, 05:29 PM
Hey ron, did redbull change your full shelf deal to include a second shelf of 4pks?

Ron Swedelson
01-13-2005, 07:58 PM
We have had that...well at least from last year we did, and kept it for 04. They added for us priceing. So an account that has 2 shelfs, cold equiptment, and selling singles at $1.99 or less, they get up to 6 cases per quarter.

lildaddy
01-19-2005, 11:20 AM
From some RB managers in Detroit, they did say that Coke did make an offer to purchase RB somewhere in the are of $51M, but was quickly rejected. Come on Coke would probably have to come up with 150M to even be considered legit. Just my thoughts.