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SODAPOPPS
02-07-2006, 01:30 PM
Hearing rumors of Red Bull testing a 16oz SKU in certain markets. Anyone have any details?

just thinkin
02-07-2006, 01:49 PM
i havent heard anything but if true we will have to start buying bigger bottles of vodka and jager lol. I dont think they would do it just because of the set up they already have with the size of cans and all is to familiar with the public. Not only that but they are the number one selling energy drink - if a company is hurting ,which they really are not,then they try different things like changing image and all and thats what i think,- could be wrong???

The Truth
02-07-2006, 02:07 PM
Monster #1 in Phoenix. MORE TO COME.

just thinkin
02-07-2006, 02:32 PM
The truth, When you go to the store do you buy Q. tips or johnson & johnson? Or would you go and ask for an energy drink or would you simply say (before all the new ones came out) i can go for a red bull. no matter what people are still going to associate the name first known to the product being sold. In most of your success stories. I am sure monster may be good i have never tried it but i will possibly one day. If you read my other post you will see why

Red Sox fan
02-07-2006, 03:19 PM
just thinkin-no clue on what you just wrote. I think you were trying to make the point that RB has become synonymous with Energy Drinks like Klennex has to Tissues. I may be wrong though as I have trouble interpreting incoherent sentences.

As far as Monster being #1 in Phoenix goes..Truth, what is the source?

Breuvage .J
02-07-2006, 04:38 PM
I would be surprised if RB would launch a 16 oz can, the price point would be to high and the ingrediants in the RB will be doubled, therefor it would maybe become a health issue for someone that drinks several of them ......

The Truth
02-07-2006, 04:39 PM
Beverage Digest

SODAPOPPS
02-07-2006, 05:44 PM
Thanks for feedback. Saw that in Beverage Digest - that trend is the only reason I would believe RB might take such a drastic step. Why would category leader stray from core premium offering and compromise pricing/margins/image other than the fact that they are slowly but surely losing share to plethora of 16oz competitors that have more of a value per oz. offering? One RB distributor told me he had heard of no 16oz product, but talked to someone else who say they have seen the 16oz product being tested. Just trying to get broader input. Thanks.

just thinkin
02-07-2006, 11:56 PM
red sox fan, you understood what i was trying to say correctly

greg
02-08-2006, 11:35 AM
I have talked to a Regional Manager(8 states) with RB and he mentioned that they are going to test market the 16oz can this year. No more specifics than that.
RB is concerned about the 16oz segment but feels that people will soon tire of the large cans.

CStoreCatMan
02-08-2006, 02:33 PM
I have heard that Red Bull WILL be moving to larger sizes this summer. I got the info from a beverage buyer at one of the c-store accounts I call on in Southern California. Not sure if it will be a test first, or if they're just going to go for it...I'll probably know more before too long.

boodoo
02-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Go aead and write it in 3 inch headlines...sooner or later RB will be in 16oz. It is just the evolution of the category.

SumPoosieCat
02-08-2006, 09:16 PM
Sooner or later the American public just demands more. Red Bull has done very well but the market seems to be changing and in the land of the Big Gulp 16 ounces will rule over 8 ounces very soon.

fusion
02-08-2006, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by SODAPOPPS:
Thanks for feedback. Saw that in Beverage Digest - that trend is the only reason I would believe RB might take such a drastic step. Why would category leader stray from core premium offering and compromise pricing/margins/image other than the fact that they are slowly but surely losing share to plethora of 16oz competitors that have more of a value per oz. offering? One RB distributor told me he had heard of no 16oz product, but talked to someone else who say they have seen the 16oz product being tested. Just trying to get broader input. Thanks. This is my thinking as well. We have already seen too much price erosion with the cheap drinks from the Shasta/Faygo people, and now I see Albertson's stores with their "Max Velocity" 8.4s at $1 each.

Red Bull is not going to be able to charge $3.98 for the 16oz cans. I figure they will probably have to make their pricing the same as the others in the 16oz category. We're at $1.82 with Full Throttle and Rockstar in Wally, $2 in most accounts, with some $2.25s and $2.50s in smaller C-stores.

Which means their margins will suffer, along with the distributors margins.

And what about the people with the 8.4oz vending machines? And the distributors who only sell RB?

just thinkin
02-08-2006, 11:17 PM
Fusion, just a thought, if they do come out with do you think they would make a conversion kit for all of their machines ? or do you think they might drop the 8.4oz can price a bit lower to be able to sell both sizes at reasonable prices. I noticed if i am not mistaken that rockstar had 2 sizes at the local gas station

SODAPOPPS
02-09-2006, 07:42 AM
Thanks again for feedback. Will be interesting to see. I have been told by a c-store category manager that RB is pushing hard for higher 16oz pricing at retail - basically saying stores are leaving profits on the table by pricing 16oz at $2 - in line with 8 oz RB. This seems like an attempt to carve out room for RB to introduce 16oz w/out harming its current pricing/margins. Category is getting awfully crowded with new Coke products onslaught - saw my first Rockstar Juiced yesterday. Pretty good.

Bill Brasky
02-09-2006, 07:52 AM
This is a VERY, VERY deabatable topic.

How much money is invested in all of the Coolers (all sizes), POS, Glide-Racks....the story goes on and on....very iffy on why, where, and when this would happen. The retailer is bound to suffer. Add costs of shipping, re-packaging, the recent introduction of the 12pk.....wow, it is just soooo much of an investment for such a risk when the other 16oz have established their place and allowed Red Bull theirs on their 8oz shelf....

EVERY new POG this year shows the 8oz RB so you know they are not going 16oz too aggressively yet, and the buyers everywhere do not know ANYTHING about the 16oz RB. As far as everyone in the trade says that I see....they are and will be the only 8oz at the end of the 2006 year, and they will continue to enjoy success at that.

As far as losing market share, it was only a matter of time. As said above, they will continue to have incredible success and are still the category leader....

As far as MONSTER at #1 in Phoenix, I just heard that too. I saw the 3rd QTR for that area and it looked like they would take it, but man that is just huge! First market Red Bull lost the #1 spot in. HUGE NEWS! Congrats to Monster! I have heard there are 3 other markets about to switch #1's this first half as well....wow! 2006 is bound to be the CRUCIAL year for all players.

SumPoosieCat
02-09-2006, 09:40 AM
I think another question to ask is, "How many people WANT to drink 16 ounces of Red Bull at one sitting?" I drink sugar free Red Bull from time to time and I have to admit I have NO interest in drinking 16 ounces of the stuff at one sitting.

just thinkin
02-09-2006, 10:06 AM
I agree with tallthinblonde, I dont know if i really would want to drink any energy drink of 16oz. in one sitting. When i have just one redbull i get hyper let alone a double dose

greg
02-09-2006, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Bill Brasky:
This is a VERY, VERY deabatable topic.

How much money is invested in all of the Coolers (all sizes), POS, Glide-Racks....the story goes on and on....very iffy on why, where, and when this would happen. The retailer is bound to suffer. Add costs of shipping, re-packaging, the recent introduction of the 12pk.....wow, it is just soooo much of an investment for such a risk when the other 16oz have established their place and allowed Red Bull theirs on their 8oz shelf....

EVERY new POG this year shows the 8oz RB so you know they are not going 16oz too aggressively yet, and the buyers everywhere do not know ANYTHING about the 16oz RB. As far as everyone in the trade says that I see....they are and will be the only 8oz at the end of the 2006 year, and they will continue to enjoy success at that.

As far as losing market share, it was only a matter of time. As said above, they will continue to have incredible success and are still the category leader....

As far as MONSTER at #1 in Phoenix, I just heard that too. I saw the 3rd QTR for that area and it looked like they would take it, but man that is just huge! First market Red Bull lost the #1 spot in. HUGE NEWS! Congrats to Monster! I have heard there are 3 other markets about to switch #1's this first half as well....wow! 2006 is bound to be the CRUCIAL year for all players. Bill,
I see your point. However,many companies have enjoyed success only to loose market share by not changing with the times. i.e. American Auto Makers.Look at Coke, once the darling of wall street, didn't change with the times and contiued down the path of success with carbonated sugar drinks. Then Isotonics, teas, waters, etc became popular and left Coke scrambling to fill the void because they didn't think they needed to worry aboput there market strategy.
The American Public grows bored with their choices and especially packaging. Choices are a reflection of change and people don't like to feel outdated.
g

Ron Swedelson
02-09-2006, 12:17 PM
Id be interested to see their pricing and programs that come along with the 16 oz drink. Granted, they will stay #1 overall, but do they really want to see their gap over #2 & #3 continue to shrink? They already have bigger sizes in other countries, and I think now is the time to bring it here to the US. Personaly, when I worked for Red Bull, I could easily down 2-3 cans in a row. We all see how huge a market the 16 and 24 oz can is. So how do we start to have a conversation about how it might be hard to drink 16 oz of Red Bull?
I think last summer, in Sacramento, Monster took over the #1 spot. For how long or if it was just in the grocery, I dont know.

Super Jay
04-17-2006, 12:14 AM
this is funny how things have changed in just about 2 months. red bull 16 oz will definetely be a player in the 16 oz category by the end of the year after the national roll-out.

EntreEnergy
04-17-2006, 01:09 AM
I've found myself going from energy drink to energy drink, and I get tired of the taste of each- i think the large size has something to do with it. Obviously 16oz drinks are seeing success, but sticking with the 8.3 is a strategy in itself. Will be interesting to see what happens.

leisuredrummer
04-20-2006, 02:12 AM
I work for Red Bull right now as an MET. We had a meeting today that confirmed the 16oz Red Bull rumor. They told us that it is currently being tested in Las Vegas and that it isn't a for sure thing yet. Red Bull has been against the bigger can trend forever but I guess that the demand for such an addition has finally taken it's toll as well as the success of the competitions bigger cans.

The reason Red Bull has always had the 8.3oz can and has never gone bigger is because of the fact that 8.3oz is all your body needs and all that it can use. Anything else is wasted by your body. It isn't meant to be a "pleasure" beverage but as a energy booster.

They told us that Red Bull was planning on charging around $3.80 for the 16oz.

Lepke
04-20-2006, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by leisuredrummer:


The reason Red Bull has always had the 8.3oz can and has never gone bigger is because of the fact that 8.3oz is all your body needs and all that it can use. Anything else is wasted by your body. It isn't meant to be a "pleasure" beverage but as a energy booster.
Sorry to break it to you my friend but that is nothing but marketing. You have been thoroughly brain washed by the RedBuillshyt corporate propaganda machine.

You are an MET that is the corporate line they want you to put out there and need you to believe. The corporate higher ups know full well the “8.3 is all your body needs” is nothing but marketing strategy.

I have it on very good authority that the 16.6 can will be launched due to long term projections of market share loss to 16 oz energy drinks in the American market.

Don’t buy all the Bull that is fed to you.

leisuredrummer
04-20-2006, 08:16 PM
That doesn't prove that 8.3oz isn't all your body needs though, it just proves that they have a had a drop off of sales to the 16oz market, that is the reason for the 16oz.

Red Bull Vendor
04-20-2006, 08:29 PM
Do argue with Lepke, he KNOWS EVERYTHING, just ignore him, he lacks attention

Lepke
04-20-2006, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by leisuredrummer:
That doesn't prove that 8.3oz isn't all your body needs though, it just proves that they have a had a drop off of sales to the 16oz market, that is the reason for the 16oz. That’s right, the 16.6 oz 500 mil can is because RedBull does not want to lose the sales to 16 oz competitors.

The stuff is bases on a Thai energy drink. The Thai product is much stronger and has ingredients that the Austrian product does not have.

There is ZERO evidence or any real research to support the claim that scientifically this is all your body needs or can use. It is a marketing strategy.

Believe what you please.

Red Sox fan
04-20-2006, 10:25 PM
Pretty pumped that BEVNET used the picture I submitted on this thread for their article "16oz Red Bull: It is alive". I feel almost like some kind of beverage paparazzi!!

However..I expect a check!!

People say that the photographer who gets the first picture of Brad and Angelina's baby can sell it for $5 million, minimum.

I figure the first picture of Red bull 16oz has to be worth double this easy!

Mr Zabe
04-20-2006, 10:38 PM
......and 1 year of intense psychotherapy. LOL

Lepke
04-20-2006, 10:45 PM
You should have been given credit in the article.

DudeMan
04-20-2006, 11:44 PM
8.3oz can't be all your body needs, unless of course you're a 130lb Austrian hehe. Regular energy drink consumers hardly feel anything from an 8.3oz Red Bull. It's also very ignorant to say that anything more goes to waste. Are you saying that the guy who drinks 2 cans of Red Bull feels the same effect as the guy who drinks just 1 can, because the second can went to waste? Generally speaking, 16oz's are stronger, period.

Unfortunately I do have a feeling that if they go nationwide with this 16.6oz, they are going to grab a LOT of market share. I fear that many of the 16oz's from the smaller players may disappear as a result of this.

EntreEnergy
04-21-2006, 03:05 PM
not if they are charging near 4$ a can.

cagilbert
04-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Rockstar was handing the 16.6oz cans out by the trashcan full today here at Purdue University. They had a whole Rockstar box truck full of it to last all weekend during our Grand Prix event. Sounds like I should have hung onto the can for some pictures.

cagilbert
04-21-2006, 05:07 PM
What the hell am I thinking. I just completely misunderstood the entire thread.....opps

Red Bull Vendor
04-21-2006, 08:19 PM
none to worry we have Lepke here that does it all the time LOL ROTFLMAO

SumPoosieCat
04-23-2006, 09:57 AM
The 16 ounce energy drink is here to stay and continues to thrive. Red Bull has to join the party or risk losing even more market share. If and when they do roll out the 16 ounce can nationwide they will have to price it like Rockstar and Monster. When they do that who will pay 1.99 for the 8 ounce can???

SURGE
04-23-2006, 03:16 PM
Seems to me that Red Bull has got to walk a thin line. As people have already said- if they go 16oz nationally at $4 they may(?) have trouble completing with the existing 16ozers especially because they are so late to the party. On the other hand if they offer 16oz for 2$ or so then they will murder their 8oz overnight and risk having to carry double the product weight for less profit per can- less cans per truck and lower margins on each one seem like a bad situation. My suggestion is that they shoot for a middleground like $3. Otherwise I just cant see how either option isnt gonna hurt the Bull.

Lepke
04-23-2006, 06:10 PM
If red bull launches the 16.6 at around $3.49 I know many of the mom and pop c-stores around here will up the price of all their 16oz energy drinks.

I know these people all too well. These are the kind of folks who pull apart promotions to sell them separately. People who never take expired product off of the shelf no mater how many times you bring to their attention that it is out of date. They will charge as much as they think they can get away with. Not all are like this but I would have to say most.
I even know one store where they don’t want prices on anything so they can over charge. (At least these guys were honest enough to tell me that.)
They will figure if their customers will pay $3.49 for a 16.6 RedBull then they will pay at least $3.00 any other 16oz.

SumPoosieCat
04-23-2006, 07:32 PM
If Red Bull tried to charge much more for their 16 ounce can than Monster or Rockstar it would collect dust. With the success of the 16 ounce can Red Bull is in a tough spot.

Lepke
04-23-2006, 08:24 PM
I don’t believe for a moment that anything red bull puts out will collect dust.

Many red bull drinkers purchase and drink two cans at a time anyway. These red bull consumers will see the 16.6 as a value if it cost 50¢ less then buying two cans.
While red bull may be cannibalizing some of their 8.3 sales the increased sales of the 16.6 should make up for it somewhat.

Red bull is perceived by the consumer as a premium product. While you would be hard pressed to find people who are willing to shell out over $3.00 for 16 ounces of vitamin enriched fruit punch flavored soda pop, red bull will have little trouble selling this new SKU.

Many consumers will view the higher priced product as being superior in quality to cheaper competitors. These higher end consumers will see a product that cost less as being worth less. And they will view other 16-ounce brands as being what they were meant to be in the first place. That is a cheaper value added product.

SumPoosieCat
04-23-2006, 08:58 PM
Wow.. Lepke I could not possibly disagree more. This is the Walmart age and most people don't care about quality as much as the do PRICE. Do you really think people will buy Red Bull for 2.99 when they can have Monster or Rockstar for 2.29. Some will because they are die hard Red Bull fans, but most will go for value. This 16 ounce can is a time bomb for Red Bull... very interesting.

Lepke
04-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Wow.. Lepke I could not possibly disagree more. This is the Walmart age and most people don't care about quality as much as the do PRICE. Do you really think people will buy Red Bull for 2.99 when they can have Monster or Rockstar for 2.29. Some will because they are die hard Red Bull fans, but most will go for value. This 16 ounce can is a time bomb for Red Bull... very interesting. Yes I believe people will pay more for what they perceive as “better”.

Do woman pay more for Salvador Ferragamo, Coach, Nine West, Ann Kline, Kenneth Cole or Michael Kors shoes?

Do people pay more for Mercedes Benz, Porsche, B M W or Ferrari?

Do people pay more for Cristal or Dom Perignon?

How about Grey Goose, Absolute or Stolichnaya?

Hagen dazs or store brand?

It’s about “perception” and about money. Most people may not be able to afford the very best. But if they perceive that they can get the highest quality and the designer name for only $1.00 more then many will go for the buck. The folks you are talking about may not be able to buy diamonds or cars but they can spend a dollar or two more on what they think is "the best".

Perhaps you are forgetting we are talking about “functional beverages” not simply soda pop. Many will perceive a cheaper price as cheaper product.

Even if we were talking about soda it would still be true. people buy Coke and Pepsi over wal-mart brand.

Would you buy Maybelline, Cover Girl or Almay?

[ 04-23-2006, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

SumPoosieCat
04-23-2006, 10:31 PM
Just so you know Lepke Honda sells more cars than Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, and BMW combined.

Red Bull has been losing market share because people believe they are getting a better value at 2.29 for 16 ounces. Millions now know what they are getting when they buy a Monster or Rockstar. If Red Bull shows up at 2.99 people are going to see it as more expensive plain and simple. Its my opinion Lepke, remember many on this board thought they would never see Red Bull in anything but a 8 ounce can....my how things change.

I always wanted SumPoosie in a glass bottle but changed my mind because the glass kept us out of so many venues. I am glad I did... sales have doubled!

Lepke
04-23-2006, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Just so you know Lepke Honda sells more cars than Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, and BMW combined.
Were not talking about cars where the difference in price is thousands of dollars.
We are talking about one or two bucks.

But I guess you don’t get it.

And Honda sells better then the cheaper Hyundai.


I’m sure the name SumPoosie will continue keep you out of many venues.

[ 04-23-2006, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

Mr Zabe
04-23-2006, 11:22 PM
I think the term is "affordable Luxury. Some goods have an inelastic demand curve. Meaning as the cost of a good increase the demand for a good will not decrees due the real or perceived need for the product. Prescription medication is the classic example of this kind of inelastic demand.
People will pay the price even if it has increased.

In general IMO energy drinkers seek drinks not based just on cost but on preceived effectivness. So if drink X cost $0.50 more than drink Y, most drinkers will pay the additonal cost for the more (preceived) effective energy drink. IMO Based on the assumption that the demand for energy drinks is inelastic.

[ 04-23-2006, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Lepke
04-23-2006, 11:40 PM
Red Bull in the 8.3-ounce can still out sells all other energy drinks at the same price as a 16-ounce monster or rock star.

So obviously people will pay more for what they want.

We are not talking about taking a loan to buy an energy drink.

If the price difference between the very best and the adequate is twenty thousand dollars then you have to think about it.

But if the difference is a dollar then many folks are going to buy what they think is the best.

I’m not saying red bull is really the best but people perceive it that way. And for a buck they can treat them selves.

[ 04-23-2006, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

Doug
04-24-2006, 12:26 AM
My buddy just left for Vegas yesterday, I told him if he could find any 16oz RBs to pick one up

DudeMan
04-24-2006, 03:03 AM
I do agree that they're a little late in the party. They're obviously aware of this and hence the extra 0.6 oz. But I also think that 16oz drinkers are not Red Bull drinkers. I don't think that Monster and No Fear drinkers care for Red Bull. These people will see Red Bull as a follower looking for a makeover.

One of the key issues in brand extension is trying to avoid having the extension grab too much market share from the core brand. I think Red Bull will fail here, in that a large portion of the 16.6oz buyers will be people who used to buy 2 cans of the 8.4oz. Monster addicts ain't gonna switch over to Red Bull just because it now comes in a 16.6oz

SumPoosieCat
04-24-2006, 08:07 AM
I no longer drink diet Red Bull because I have switched to diet monster or diet rockstar. The reason is simple, I get more for my money! Why would I buy two Red Bulls for 4 bucks when I can have Monster or Rockstar for 2.29. Believe me, many feel the same way I do, why do you think Red Bull is experimenting with a 16 ounce can? The growth of the energy market is coming from the 16 ounce can not the 8 ounce can. Americans want more plain and simple. Red Bull is in a spot with these 16 ounce cans... I am interested to see how they respond. So far they are very late to the party.

Spartan Dan
04-24-2006, 10:26 AM
Ive found that there is never enough drink in one container. But I still Refrain from buying another.

-VV-
04-24-2006, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Wow.. Lepke I could not possibly disagree more. This is the Walmart age and most people don't care about quality as much as the do PRICE. Is that why they are hemorraghing marketshare to Target?

I happen to agree with Lepke on this one. Many people will steer away from something they perceive to be cheap or of poor quality; I know many people who will not step foot in a Walmart, not because of the deals or values, but because of their perception of the environment as a whole.

Value is one thing. Cheap is entirely another.

-VV-
04-24-2006, 01:00 PM
And another fine example of the point many are making, can be found at the gas pump. You have a choice of not less than 3 types of Unleaded fuel to choose from at any pump. There are consumers who will always go for the cheapest possible gas they can buy, even if that means going to the store offering the cheap non-branded gasloine at the pumps. Others will not touch an off-brand regardless of price, and will always pay 3-5 bucks extra or more for the premium version of that brand.

SumPoosieCat
04-24-2006, 06:40 PM
If you people think there is a perceived quality difference between Rockstar, Monster and Red Bull you are kidding yourself. I don't know anyone who thinks Red Bull is higher quality than Monster or Rockstar. HANS above 140 per share, now that's quality!

Lepke
04-24-2006, 06:59 PM
Why is Red Bull in the 250-mil can the best selling energy drink in not only America but also the world?

If people didn’t perceive it as better then one of the 16 oz brands would be the best seller?
After all you can get 16 oz for the same price as 250 milliliters.

Why pay more?

I’ll tell you why. People simply believe that Red Bull is a better more functional product.

Most consumers are not in the beverage business and don’t realize that their perception is based on marketing, not reality.

YOU as someone in the industry know there are better products out there.
The general public does not. They believe what is marketed to them.

[ 04-24-2006, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

Mr Zabe
04-24-2006, 07:24 PM
You just made the key point that I was thinking about but was not able to post on this thread. You have made IMO the key point of how for the majority (not all) people are influenced to buy/stay with a brand.

Another example when I get may car's oil changed I make sure I get 5W30 as per my car's engine requirements. Putting in 10W30 and saving a dollar would not be wise according to the requirements of my engine. Sorta relates to the argument that price is not necessarily the primary thing that makes a purchase decision for energy drinks.

[ 04-24-2006, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

SumPoosieCat
04-24-2006, 08:28 PM
Lepke... you are not giving the consumer enough credit. Sooner or later they figure it out. Nothing is good or bad except by comparison. Hanson's stock has gone up 5 fold in a year because Monster Energy Drink sales are up up and away. Do you think its from just new energy drinkers? Red Bull has done very well over the last 7 years but the market is growing and maturing and in America the tide has turned to the 16 ounce can. Hanson at over 140 is all you need to know. I expect AB to announce they are buying Hanson before the end of the year.

Lepke
04-24-2006, 08:58 PM
"You’ll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." ----------- Phineas Taylor Barnum or HL Mencken some people say it was George S. Kaufman

[ 04-24-2006, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

-VV-
04-24-2006, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
If you people think there is a perceived quality difference between Rockstar, Monster and Red Bull you are kidding yourself.No, I think that is the essence of Capitalism. I am suggesting that preference IS a perceived difference of value.

As an example, if someone is a devout Coca Cola drinker. Their preference is a perceived value, and even if Coca Cola were priced much higher than Pepsi - they would continue to prefer Coke over Pepsi and buy it. I think the problem here, is that you assume that most consumers consider only price when making a purchase, and that their sense of value is based solely on price.

If that were true, there would be no Starbucks, no RedBull, no energy drink category. It's all about perceived value, and if RedBull has been good at anything, it is creating perceived value in their brand.

[ 04-25-2006, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Veruca Vending ]

SumPoosieCat
04-25-2006, 07:27 AM
No doubt ... However! That is exactly what has left the door open for Monster, Rockstar and yes even SumPoosie. Many customers "see" more value in getting 16 ounces instead of just 8. That is why Monster is actually number 1 in some areas. If two years ago someone told you Monster was going to take over the number 1 spot in ANY area you would have laughed. I can't wait to see how it all plays out! The best thing is the energy category continues to grow and grow!

David J.
04-25-2006, 05:39 PM
I think I'm the only person in the world who likes the taste of Redbull. I'd buy a 16oz. if it was cheap and in my area.

ALLPRO
04-25-2006, 09:46 PM
Red Bull 16oz is going to have a big effect in the 16oz Energy Drink Category. In my area they are cutting out the local distributor and building their own company owned DSD. I imagine they will do that all over the country. They are not messing around!

Lepke
04-25-2006, 10:00 PM
RBNA will never cut out the distributor in my area.
They do a great job with the product.
They built it up here from nothing.
They sell only Red Bull, nothing else.
And if RBNA tried to screw them Dietrich Mateschitz would find him self sleeping with the fishes.

[ 04-25-2006, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

-VV-
04-26-2006, 12:06 AM
Agreed. My distributor is one of only two in the state. They are primarily an alcoholic beverage distributor. Red Bull is the only energy drink they distribute. If Red Bull tried to bypass their distribution network, they would find themselves growing their business from scratch, and they would most likely also find themselves trying in vain to get their product offered in bars and nightclubs, because they have no inroads outside of the two distributors who service the state.

I don't think Red Bull is stupid enough to snub their noses at their existing distribution network. It would be an amazingly stupid move.

[ 04-26-2006, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Veruca Vending ]

fusion
04-26-2006, 12:23 AM
It's been done before. Rockstar and Jones both abandoned significant parts of their distributor network.

bullman
04-26-2006, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by David J,:
I think I'm the only person in the world who likes the taste of Redbull. I'd buy a 16oz. if it was cheap and in my area. I think that makes a lot of sense. I don't know anyone who actually likes the taste of Red Bull, and I've had people try it and not like it. I know I won't be one of the 16 ounce Red Bull regulars. I'd much rather have a No Fear, AMP or Monster any day. After getting excited about the 16 ounce Red Bull announcement, I've grown complacent because I'm watching Monster kick Red Bull's butt in my day to day numbers and I don't see that changing anytime soon just because Red Bull comes out with a more expensive 16 ounce can. Two things will hurt this product: taste and price.

[ 04-26-2006, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: bullman ]

Lepke
04-26-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by fusion:
It's been done before. Rockstar and Jones both abandoned significant parts of their distributor network. The distributor in my area opened up the company with the sole purpose of distributing red bull.

They nursed the brand from the start in this area. It sat on the shelves for more then a year before people started picking it up.

These people poured millions of dollars into growing and distributing the brand before it started to sell.

They went along with everything red bull asked of them no mater how stupid it seemed at the time.

If red bull tried to cut them out there would be hell to pay and loads of money.

Jones soda was a disaster here. That in it self is a long story.

Around here rock star used existing distributors to sell their brand and never really got a huge foothold even changing distributors several times before selling out. The guys who started rock star were in it for the quick buck. The concept behind rock star was twice as much for the same price. Thus whoring the entire category.

Hansen’s natural was never a big brand in this area. I often wondered where they got the money to keep promoting products that clearly did not sell here. But they kept promoting and throwing money at their product line in my area and eventually after years of hard work and maintaining a presence in the market …… it still didn’t sell…

It’s easy keeping your brand on the shelf when the stores can’t sell any of it. Some of the c-stores in my area still have Hansen’s energy drinks (other than the green ones) in the cooler from over 5 years ago. I guess they are waiting for them to start leaking before throwing them out.
Remember Energade?

Well a broken clock is right twice a day and Hansen’s got lucky with monster.

ALLPRO
04-26-2006, 11:00 AM
In my area the Red Bull Distributor also carries Rockstar and Monster. Maybe that is why they are losing the Red Bull distributorship.

Ron Swedelson
04-26-2006, 11:02 AM
AllPRO...that is mainly because the distributor who sells Red Bull in your area also ownes a house that sells Rock Star...so Red Bull wants to get a distributor who will simply concentrate on their brand and not be partial in any bigger stores or have management influence the way their brand is sold.

Red Sox fan
04-26-2006, 02:46 PM
"Around here rock star used existing distributors to sell their brand and never really got a huge foothold even changing distributors several times before selling out. The guys who started rock star were in it for the quick buck. The concept behind rock star was twice as much for the same price. Thus whoring the entire category" Lepke.

Lepke-your facts are incorrect. Rockstar did not "sell out" and is still independantly owned. They did however upgrade their distribution a couple times in your area, the most recent being with Coca Cola Enterprises. If you say that Rockstar "sold out" because the people who own the company are always looking for ways to improve their distribution, then fine. Stupid, but fine.

Red Sox fan
04-26-2006, 02:49 PM
"The concept behind rock star was twice as much for the same price. Thus whoring the entire category"-Lepke

So in your opinion Rockstar would have attained the same level of success if it had come out in an 8oz can and tried to go head to head with RB right? Who cares about "whoring the category"?? Last time I checked we were all in this to make money (which Rockstar has done quite nicely).

SumPoosieCat
04-26-2006, 03:33 PM
Sounds like Rockstar was a pioneer to me! The 16 ounce can is what everyone is doing now including me! Now even Red Bull is doing a 16 ounce can and for one reason... they are losing market share to the 16 ounce can.

Coco Rico
04-27-2006, 02:31 AM
TallThinBlonde,

The thing you need to realize is that losing market share (especially as infinitesmally as Red Bull is - I think they've dropped nationally a "whopping" 3 or 4 percentage points) does not necessarily equate to lost profits or diminished sales. Red Bull North America is still growing at about 40% over last year - and they sold 1 billion cans last year in the US alone.

There is not a single competitor that is even remotely close to matching their sales. Sure, there may be a handfull of markets where a particular brand may outpace single serve Red Bull in one channel or other, but so what. It probably has less to do with that brand's strength and more to do with the fact that Red Bull probably has a weak distributor and/or underperforming employees in that market. Nobody's perfect.

So sure, as competitors come and go and the category expands, of course Red Bull's market share will diminish... that's normal. However, that's not the number that matters. Market share doesn't put money in the bank, sales and profits do.

CR

SumPoosieCat
04-27-2006, 08:35 AM
Coco for the record I thank Red Bull every day for helping to bring to light an entire beverage category that now makes me a very good living.

With that being said my point is this...Rockstar and Monster together are doing so well that the industry giant is having to follow them! Many laughed when they came out with 16 ounce cans and now it "is" the industry standard. I am interested in hearing from you how Red Bull can hope to bring out a 16 ounce can and not kill their 8 ounce can sales. How will they price it?

On a side note I saw something on a convenience store door I thought I would never see... a sign that says buy 3 for 5 dollars! 3 cans of Red Bull for 5 dollars....hmmmm

By the way not many companies lose market share and increase profits... just ask GM.

-VV-
04-27-2006, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Rockstar and Monster together are doing so well that the industry giant is having to follow them! Many laughed when they came out with 16 ounce cans and now it "is" the industry standard. I am interested in hearing from you how Red Bull can hope to bring out a 16 ounce can and not kill their 8 ounce can sales. How will they price it?Industry standard? That's arrogant. Red Bull is the industry leader, worldwide. You're looking only at the US side, and ignoring the fact that Red Bull is still selling more 8.3oz cans even though consumers have a choice of a 16oz can for the same price.

How will they price it? The answer is, it doesn't matter. When they introduced the 4 pack, it was priced in retail outlets about .50 lower than the cost of buying 4 individual cans. People still perceived this as a value and bought them. If they buy a 16.6, they are going to save about .50 on what amounts to two cans. The 16.6 is a better value than their four pack, which sells well.

As to your GM comparison, it doesn't really serve your point well. Besides the fact that GM never had a continuous period of expolsive growth such as energy drinks are currently enjoying, which would you rather have? 40% of $10,000,000, or 30% of $20,000,000? Give me 30% of $20,000,000 anyday.
As long as the overall market is enjoying growth, losing marketshare is not equivalent to making less money. If the pie is continuously getting bigger, having a smaller piece of that pie still yields a bigger serving. Red Bull continues to increase profits year, after year after year, despite having hundreds of competitors and losing "marketshare" to them. Those competitors are the natural byproduct of a market growing at the rate that energy drinks currently are.

One need look no further than telecommunications to see how this will all play out. When they came out with the Telecom Act of 1996, there was an explosive growth of upstarts piggybacking on the Networks of the big players. The pie was growing, so they had a nice little run, but inevitably, the market became bloated - so when the IT/Telecom heyday came to an abrubt end, you had hundreds, no make that THOUSANDS of casualties. What did you end up with? A smaller group of bigger players. I suspect similar will occur with energy drinks when the market levels out, and I don't suspect the fallout will be as harsh as it was in telecommunications. Still, there will be casualties, many of them. Adn Red Bull is very well poised to not be one of them.

SumPoosieCat
04-27-2006, 10:26 AM
Wow...did I strike a cord? We all know Red Bull is the market leader. However you have to admire how Monster has come out and kicked some butt lately. They are actually number 1 in a few markets and their stock is up 500% in a year and now the company has a 3 billion dollar market value thanks to the strength of Monster.

As in horse racing it is nice to see the odds on favorite get beat by a 20-1 shot!

"In my opinion" if Red Bull sticks a 16 ounce can on the shelf and prices it at 3.49 it will sit and sit and sit. "In my opinion" a 16 ounce can is Red Bulls worst nightmare. It seems to be a no win for them.

Lepke
04-27-2006, 10:34 AM
With all due respect.

Red Bull could launch a 16-ounce can of urine called “NEW Red Bull Can ‘O’ Piss” and priced it at $5.00 and it would not sit and sit and sit.

There will always be people who will buy the name.

SumPoosieCat
04-27-2006, 12:10 PM
You sound like Earl Lendmon! In the 1800's his family and business was known around the world for making the very finest horse whips. Lendmon Horse Whips over 100 years had become a status symbol. When the first automobiles came out he and Lendmon Leather Co. were offered a position by the Ford Motor Company to design and make leather auto seats. Earl scoffed and told Mr. Ford, "Sir, my family and I have made the finest leather whips for more than a hundred years!"
"We will continue to make the finest leather whips our fine name is all we need."

Lepke... have you seen a fine Lendmon Family Leather Whip lately?

Lepke
04-27-2006, 01:39 PM
On planet sumpoosie there is no Red Bull but on earth they are still the market leader.

And as much as you and me would see this company die a miserable death, thus far they have survived.

You keep living on planet sumpoosie and I will live in the real world.

greg
04-27-2006, 03:08 PM
Does anyone know where or how RB produces its drinks?
I don't know of one single RB distribuotr that bottles RB. That doesn't mean that they don't do it. I just don't know of any. Morover, other than the vans I see on a daily basis with the RB logo on it I never see any Tractor Trailers rolling down the highway with the same logo.
Do they have 2-3 plants nationwide similar to Coors or do they have many bottlers across the nation?

Mr Zabe
04-27-2006, 03:36 PM
Gee,I thought I heard on this board that all of Red Bulls US products are imported. From what country I do not recall.

[ 04-27-2006, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Lepke
04-27-2006, 03:39 PM
Austria

greg
04-27-2006, 03:51 PM
You're telling me that every RB in the US is imported? What a waste of money. They could set up a few plants here for the cost of shipping 1 years worth of product. That doesn't sound right to me. Not to mention the risk invloved of it being held up due to political or security reasons.
How many shiploads a month do you think they send over?

[ 04-27-2006, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: greg ]

Mr Zabe
04-27-2006, 03:56 PM
I lurked over on the Red Bull website. I searched for bottling/production sites. Austria was the only place mentioned. I wounder if there is some special water,native secret element that requires Red Bull to be produced in Austria?

[ 04-27-2006, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Lepke
04-27-2006, 03:59 PM
Part of the allure of the brand is that it’s imported.

greg
04-27-2006, 04:01 PM
Mr. Zabe, Doesn't that just not sound right? If RBNA sells $225.7mm(total food, drug,and mass merchandisers only , excluding Wal-Mart) worth of product you would think they would manufacture it here to increase or at the least maintain a level of profitability.

Mr Zabe
04-27-2006, 04:05 PM
I agree. It does appear to go against most traditional business plans. Remember Toyota and Honda they were the first Japanese car companies to set up production in the States to meet the demand in the US demand for import cars. The difference in the shipping costs provided these companies with enough capital to set up car plants.

[ 04-27-2006, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

greg
04-27-2006, 04:18 PM
I looked it up and sure enough it is produced in Austria and exported throughout the World.
Wow, I couldn't believe it.

Lepke
04-27-2006, 04:20 PM
I think they package some of it in the Middle East also. But the stuff we get here is from Austria.

Coco Rico
04-30-2006, 01:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that when Red Bull increases it's presence in Latin America, and further builds out it's distribution in Canada, that bottling somewhere in the Americas will become more relevant. Although, it is true that part of it's appeal is that it's imported from Austria.

CR

mrwilmoth
05-07-2007, 03:17 PM
anyone seen these in the los angeles area?

energylover
05-11-2007, 08:02 PM
I had one the other day. New York

BriGuy20
05-17-2007, 07:09 AM
Any word on the price?

I'm not picking it up unless it's reasonably competitive on price with other 16 ounce brands (which I highly doubt it would be).

SumPoosieCat
05-23-2007, 09:18 AM
Red Bull in a 16 ounce can... wow... where did they get that idea?

EnergyGermany
05-24-2007, 04:46 PM
How do they want to explain the retailer which is making a approx. 1 per 250ml can margin that he now must sell the new 335ml for 2,79 to the consumer. Actual price for the 250ml is at petrol station 2,50..

It s clear that they must act regarding the global trend towards 1l and 1,5l PET for Energy Drinks but is this the answer?

How is this in the US? What is the price at retail for a product like Rockstar compared to the new red bull can?

fusion
05-24-2007, 08:01 PM
In most retail channels, 16oz Rockstar and 8.3oz Red Bull sell for the same price.

deepnenergy
05-25-2007, 04:52 AM
I feel lost, don't everyone know that Red Bull tried a year ago to push the 16oz in Vegas and it failed people were droping the thought of paying 3.89 to 3.99 a can when Monster & Rock Star with their stronger looking cans was selling 2.00 cheaper. From what I hear the move helped boost Monster & Rock Star sales in Vegas.

Thats why they went 12oz slim at 2.89 a can, and it's not really working to well but better then the 16oz.

deepnenergy
05-25-2007, 05:05 AM
Mr. Zabe, Doesn't that just not sound right? If RBNA sells $225.7mm(total food, drug,and mass merchandisers only , excluding Wal-Mart) worth of product you would think they would manufacture it here to increase or at the least maintain a level of profitability.

They are tight about QC, from what I hear they use the same water and mix from the same place so that every can taste the same no mater where you drink it. Like one Ed might be a little different because it was made in two different locations. Its only filtered not RO in most packers, minerals and TDS makes a big difference.

boodoo
05-25-2007, 10:12 AM
I heard from the 7-Eleven folks that the 16oz RB sold well at $3.49 last summer in Vegas. The retailer didn't like loosing gross sales and penny profit from customers trading up.

deepnenergy
05-25-2007, 12:10 PM
I heard from the 7-Eleven folks that the 16oz RB sold well at $3.49 last summer in Vegas. The retailer didn't like loosing gross sales and penny profit from customers trading up.

I seen it in a 7/11 @ 3.89 right across from the Rio.

Coco Rico
05-25-2007, 03:07 PM
From what I heard, the 16oz test was successful, however Red Bull didn't want to be seen as chasing competition with a 16oz. So they came out with a 12oz instead. By the way, since it's launch, 12oz has become the number 1 selling energy drink in dollar volume in 7-11 nationally. In fact, they just launched 12oz 4packs and they're selling for $9.99.

I'm not sure if they went ahead with a 16oz launch or if the product you are seeing is just left over from the test?

CR

deepnenergy
05-26-2007, 02:36 AM
From what I heard, the 16oz test was successful, however Red Bull didn't want to be seen as chasing competition with a 16oz. So they came out with a 12oz instead. By the way, since it's launch, 12oz has become the number 1 selling energy drink in dollar volume in 7-11 nationally. In fact, they just launched 12oz 4packs and they're selling for $9.99.

I'm not sure if they went ahead with a 16oz launch or if the product you are seeing is just left over from the test?

CR


right... I can totally understand why they would run 16oz @ 3.89 a can, "it worked out well" and then say, "hay, let's just do a 12oz even if the 16 is working, don't want to look like Monster".....NOT!!! That sounds like the crap RB was trying to pull with CL-ONE and RL & my buddy Greg. RB knows that the US is moving to 16oz and Monster is nipping along with RS and others. see their problem is they are not willing to reduce there margin or can in the US to offer PPO like US EDs. thats why Cl-one can offer the same at .99 retail. The simple truth is America is paying for RB to ship product and are slowly learning the truth and as they do, they kick the bull one by one...


I ask everyone that drink RB why not try something new and most say they all tast like crap and RB is small so I can get it down quick. I sell RB drinkers faster then any other Ed consumer out there... and that's no Bull!

mrwilmoth
06-20-2007, 08:23 PM
these still on the market? or are they still in test mode?

deepnenergy
06-21-2007, 01:24 PM
Not that I have seen, just the 12oz is there now.