PDA

View Full Version : Bevnet



MyEdrink
05-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Why does Bevnet protected members like Lepke , who bash other members and their E-drinks.??
Can someone please answer my question.

Lets get rid of Lepke from this site .

CStoreCatMan
05-11-2006, 04:20 PM
Lepke, even though he can come off as harsh, does not bash people "personally" nor does he use nasty language. Yes, he may bash some drink ideas and things of that nature...but that's called freedom of speech. Just because he's harsh doesn't mean he should be banned... In all honesty, even though he seems opinionated and some may think he's not very nice...his opinions are usually pretty valid based on beverage industry numbers and insights. My two cents.

Mr Zabe
05-11-2006, 04:27 PM
I agree. I also will add that he absolutly lives and breaths this industry. He has a very deep passion for it. By all means he is not a bully. I respect him a great deal.

In the words of Moses "Let My Lepke Go!" LMAO
(Just a silly joke.)

CStoreCatMan
05-11-2006, 04:38 PM
MyEDrink - is this BigEnergyman / Rott Energy with a new name???

It IS!! I just referenced your IP address with your old posts...nice try!

[ 05-11-2006, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

BevNET
05-11-2006, 05:13 PM
Alright, this needs to end.

Mike -- You cannot post until you calm down. We're not protecting people or making special rules for anyone.

CStoreCatMan
05-11-2006, 05:24 PM
LOL...now I'll be next on his "list." tongue.gif

[ 05-11-2006, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

Lepke
05-11-2006, 05:37 PM
So do I now have to be concerned that some hoodlum from Perth Amboy is coming down to Monmouth County to hunt me down because I don’t like his drink?

greg
05-12-2006, 11:55 AM
I find it funny that most of the people who have a negative opinion of Lepke have essetntially asked for honest feedback about their drink and when Lepke tells them what he thinks(because his opinion was asked for, which, for the most part is usually corrct) they get all bent.
Perhaps if MyEDrink guy, or whatever he goes by today , spent half as much time researching his ingredients, developing a standout package and name, and got serious about his distribution half as much as he wants to get Lepke banned from BevNet he would be successful.
Oh yeah, and he needs to stop relying on his hot Sister to promote his product.

CStoreCatMan
05-12-2006, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by greg:
Perhaps if MyEDrink guy, or whatever he goes by today , spent half as much time researching his ingredients, developing a standout package and name, and got serious about his distribution half as much as he wants to get Lepke banned from BevNet he would be successful.
Oh yeah, and he needs to stop relying on his hot Sister to promote his product. EXACTLY! The biggest point being - develop a STANDOUT PACKAGE AND NAME. "Rott" energy with a very "Pit Bull" looking package is neither innovative, creative, etc. Its a me-too, copy cat AT BEST. Again, STANDOUT PACKAGE AND NAME is key to success. The energy market is SO overcrowded now..only the most innovative new brands will stand a chance.

Mr Zabe
05-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Absolutely well said and IMO is the most fundamental key to making good money with a subtier an energy drink. Lepke as well, has said the same thing. smile.gif

[ 05-12-2006, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

DrPepperYummy
05-12-2006, 03:50 PM
See... Lepke is our Simon Cowell... he may not be a people person but in the industry he belongs to, he does have a lot to bring. Now my question is, who is the paula abdul, and can we get a picture.... lol.

Mr Zabe
05-12-2006, 04:00 PM
LMAO
Paula Abdul is a hot "space cadet" case. LOLOLOLOLOL

POP
05-12-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by MyEdrink:
Why does Bevnet protected members like Lepke , who bash other members and their E-drinks.??
Can someone please answer my question.

Lets get rid of Lepke from this site . Because he's entitled to his opinion.

I'm launching my soda pop in a week or so, and I fully understand that I can't please everyone.

Some will hate and others will think it's great.
If you can get that in your head, the CSD game will be much easier to play.

Sometimes I agree, and other times I don't but subscribing to this board for almost a year now, I've learned alot and what I've learned here pretty much inspired my soda.

POP
05-12-2006, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by DrPepperYummy:
See... Lepke is our Simon Cowell... he may not be a people person but in the industry he belongs to, he does have a lot to bring. Now my question is, who is the paula abdul, and can we get a picture.... lol. I want to be MC Scat Kat!!! :D

BigEnergy
05-12-2006, 09:03 PM
The fact of the matter is if you are going to bash other people's product's, you ought to mention what it is you do so you can give people a opportunity to give there "opinion" on your product. Opinion's are great don't get me wrong, this country was founded on those ideas. When you start steering people away from a product of which you have very limited knowledge, this to me is wrong. I distribute the product in south florida and have had great success with it. I talk with other distributers accross the country who have also had great success with the product as well. It's not an easy business whether you are Monster, Amp, RockStar, or the countless others out there trying to expand market share. It's a lot of promo, sampling, as in any business alot of hard work naturally. Again nothing personal but just the same, I would not sit around and tell a bunch of people that what you do or what product you carry is crap and tell them that based on your little knowledge that the product does not sell. Spend some money and run a D & B on Nitro2Go and I think you will be suprised to find out it is not a small company with no re-order business.

BigEnergy
05-13-2006, 10:11 PM
Brain, I appreciate your feedback. Your absolutely rite. I have been in the business about 6 years, I'm sure Lmke has been around for alot longer. I just didn't appreciate the what was said on the energy drink board, which was more than an opinion from your definition above, so I fired back. Other than that, I agree there is a ton of knowledge on this site. I have been reading it for along time, just never posted.

BuzzMonkey Energy
05-13-2006, 10:35 PM
lets just all be professionals , what lepke says or does is bs, if you are going to take insult or opinion of 1 person to heart then maybe you should just give up on your drink now and buy stock(invest) in red bull or buzz monkey LOL
either way wishing you all the success in the world, after all... "ITS ALL ABOUT THE BUZZ"

Lepke
05-13-2006, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
I reached to this company four separate times to inquire about distributing their vitamin packs. This was prior to them launching an energy drink. No one ever returned my calls.
Originally posted by Lepke:
Perhaps they have fixed the customer service problem or are desperate to find distributors. Could be a different division of the company or new people brought on to promote the new product line. I don’t know. I was just telling you my limited experience with them.
I did say it was before they launched the energy drink line.
Originally posted by Lepke:
Nitro 2 go may have a wonderful business model and it may taste great but that doesn’t mean people will buy it and drink it.
Sure you can sell your first order to c-stores. Sometimes they will just buy it to get you out of their store. But what shelf space will they give it and will the consumer buy it?
While I have no personal experience with this particular brand I do have a lot of experience with energy drinks in general.
I think with all the products on the market you can find something better to distribute.
And you don’t need their business model to do it. This is not rocket science; you can figure it out your self.
This brand does not have what it takes to be a product that you should pay for the right to distribute.
In the beverage business they almost pay you to take it. Well almost.
Originally posted by Lepke:
It’s really a tough business. The c-stores have sales people coming and going all day long. In many cases the last thing they want to see is a new energy drink.
But you should not let that stop you.

All the manufacturers want to grow but do they know what they are doing? Do they have the money to spend on growing the brand? If they have the money are they willing to spend it in your territory? What are they doing nationally if anything? These are just a few of the questions.

Figure you will be on your own for the most part. Probably the best you can expect support wise out of these people is POS and some companies may try to make pay for that.

Then there could be supply problems. After you bust your hump getting the product out there and if you are very lucky and people actually buy it, you may find that the company does not have enough product to supply you on time.

And that’s just the energy drink end of the business. And just dealing with your supplier. Never mind dealing with your customers the retailers.

I don’t mean to sound like a downer but I guess I am a downer.
There can be an up side too. Just know what you are getting into.

As far as exclusivity goes, they will most all be happy to give you an exclusive contract.
But the reality is you most likely can wipe your self with it. If they want to screw you they will.
Originally posted by Lepke:
Let me guess, you work for nitro 2 go.
You must be head of public relations.
Originally posted by Lepke:
Yeah, defiantly the VP of public and consumer relations.
When I contacted nitro 2 go some years ago to find out more about distributing their products no one ever called me back even after 4 phone calls.

With people like this working there I guess I should be happy I never heard from them. Above is each and every one of my posts to the nitro2go thread.
Please show me where I bashed the product?


BigEnergy I think your anger is misplaced.

Lepke
05-13-2006, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by BuzzMonkey Energy:
lets just all be professionals , what lepke says or does is bs, if you are going to take insult or opinion of 1 person to heart then maybe you should just give up on your drink now and buy stock(invest) in red bull or buzz monkey LOL
either way wishing you all the success in the world, after all... "ITS ALL ABOUT THE BUZZ" Where did I bash your product?
And Red Bull is a privately owned company. Any beverage professional would know that.


If I were going to import a brand from Australia, at least I would have picked one that was popular in Australia. Wild plum flavored energy drink does sound good. Will it sell is another story.

[ 05-13-2006, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

Lepke
05-13-2006, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Brainy:
I think Rox is not doing well cause they have no marketing and saturation in my area.
Bashing is: Rockstar is horrible, I drank it and couldn't stand up straight. My stomach cramped up and I threw up. . This drink will never make it.

This is the second time you mentioned ROX when addressing me. What makes you think I’m connected with ROX?
And when did I bash the taste of Rock Star?

Lepke
05-14-2006, 12:04 AM
Are you even in the beverage business?

POP
05-14-2006, 03:40 AM
We are the world...

BigEnergy
05-14-2006, 09:48 PM
I'm really starting to take a liking to Ol' Lempke

Lepke
05-15-2006, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by BigEnergy:
I'm really starting to take a liking to Ol' Lempke You have yet to answer a single question.
Who bashed your product?
What resentment are you talking about?
Are you just posting here looking for attention?

hh.jada
05-15-2006, 11:10 AM
I woulk like to know some input about TANTRA energy drink

DrPepperYummy
05-15-2006, 12:57 PM
well lets not all get sidetracked on who says what and how we should take it... lets talk about REDjAK energy drink wooooo! with AB picking up monsters line I'm afraid REDjAK is all we're going to have left aside from snapple elements but they seem to be disappearing throughout the country too (sold well for me just nobody pushed them)... someone have luck with creative ways to push energy drinks, throw us a bone here with your idea's.

SumPoosieCat
05-15-2006, 05:03 PM
I know it is just my 2 cents but I can tell you this much. When you put SumPoosie next to Red Bull and Monster, SumPoosie sells just as well! If you want something that sells really well you need to try SumPoosie. Just my opinion!

CStoreCatMan
05-15-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
I know it is just my 2 cents but I can tell you this much. When you put SumPoosie next to Red Bull and Monster, SumPoosie sells just as well! If you want something that sells really well you need to try SumPoosie. Just my opinion! Do you have sales numbers from some of the stores you're in to support your opinion? Are the retails the same? What kinds of stores are you in? National c-store accounts or mostly mom & pops, liquor stores, etc? Based on my experience as a category manager...any brand placed near Red Bull or Monster is still going to get smoked. You may be doing well for yourself but I seriously doubt you're getting anywhere near the numbers those two brands enjoy. My two cents...

Lepke
05-15-2006, 06:38 PM
I tried sumpoosie a couple of years back.
I tasted like vitamin enriched fruit punch soda. It didn’t taste bad. Sort of even tasted good if you like fruit punch soda.
It might sell better if it didn’t have an overtly sexualized and vulgar name. Or is the name the only reason someone would buy it?
It might sell well in the ghetto.
Just my 2¢.

Mr Zabe
05-15-2006, 06:41 PM
Lepke,
Tov Ma-ode. smile.gif

SumPoosieCat
05-15-2006, 06:58 PM
Lepke the name gets you to try the drink, the taste keeps you coming back. Send me your address and I will send you a couple of cans!

CStoreCat- The last thing I want to do is come on this board and brag that my drink is the best. The fact are this Red Bull is Red Bull and Monster is now with AB and Rockstar is now with Coke. If you are looking for a great energy drink that WILL sell as well as the ones listed above give SumPoosie a try and see if I am right.

I would love to make Lepke a believer!!! Talk about a challenge...!

Lepke
05-15-2006, 07:14 PM
TallThinBlonde,

I appreciate the offer of the free samples but my moral and religious convictions would preclude me from becoming a believer.

To be quite honest I find the name offensive.

Thank you for the kind offer.

SumPoosieCat
05-15-2006, 07:25 PM
No problem! I have to ask... if Poosie is offensive do you watch HBO?

Lepke
05-15-2006, 07:32 PM
I do watch HBO and Show Time. But not with my child or my mother. And defiantly not with my rabbi.

As a distributor I will not sell anything that would embarrass my family or me.

Thank you again for your offer of the samples.

CStoreCatMan
05-16-2006, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
CStoreCat- The last thing I want to do is come on this board and brag that my drink is the best. The fact are this Red Bull is Red Bull and Monster is now with AB and Rockstar is now with Coke. If you are looking for a great energy drink that WILL sell as well as the ones listed above give SumPoosie a try and see if I am right.
TTB - I hope I didn't come across as too negative. I'm not saying your drink doesn't or won't do well. Obviously, you wouldn't be here if that was the case. My point is that I don't think it sells AS WELL as a Red Bull or Monster. But, to be fair, those are two of the largest national brands there are and that would be like comparing apples and oranges. If you provide the consumer with a good tasting, functioning product at the right price, you will definitely be successful.

SumPoosieCat
05-16-2006, 07:57 PM
I understand CStorecat ... I know it is a bold statement but it is very true. People love the product and buy it where it is available. There is no shortage of people that want the product only a shortage of places to buy the product. Most of that is my fault because I came into this with very little knowledge of distribution. I focused on making a really good product and worried about little else. I am just lucky that I have a few good distributors that sell and deliver my product with great passion. I truly believe that if my product had the exposure that Rockstar and Monster have I would sell through even better. Do I have large available data to back that up ...no. I have a sampling from 2 markets that tell me I may be right. From what I have seen SumPoosie when sold next to Monster and Rockstar sells just as well, I only wish I had distribution like AB and Coke behind me.

Lepke
05-16-2006, 08:16 PM
TTB,
You only think you wish you had Coke distribution behind you.
The reality is that Coke is killing Rock Star in my market.
They are focusing on full throttle and Rock Star is getting harder to find.
In a local c-store chain that carries Rock Star their slots are filled with Red Bull.
You are much better off with a smaller company that will focus on your brand.
Coke and AB would cut your throat to prop up their own brands.

SumPoosieCat
05-16-2006, 08:27 PM
I understand and agree... let me put it this way. I hope I get some good small distributors that use to carry Rockstar and Monster but got kicked to the curb by Coke and AB. They will see that SumPoosie can sell just as well if not better. One can hope right? ;)

CStoreCatMan
05-17-2006, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
I focused on making a really good product and worried about little else. I am just lucky that I have a few good distributors that sell and deliver my product with great passion. I truly believe that if my product had the exposure that Rockstar and Monster have I would sell through even better.And that's exactly the only point I was making. I'm sure the product inside your can IS better than a RB or Monster. But its the amount of (or lack of) exposure that makes all the difference. I'm impressed with your statement above that you focused on making a good product...and that has me curious...I'd love to try it. Too many people just copy a formula, throw together a can and think they'll be an instant millionaire. You have started out the right way...stay true to that and your brand will grow.

Lepke
05-17-2006, 12:06 PM
I was talking with a friend last night who owns a good-sized distributorship in another state. The subject of sumpoosie came up. I figured that since he carries pimp juice he might be interested in sumpoosie. I told him I speak to the owner of the company here and she seems like a nice lady who is looking for distributors. He told me that a friend of his in yet another state is doing very well with sumpoosie. In fact he said it sales like crazy there.

My friend told me his company would NEVER carry sumpoosie as he is a Christian man and the name is shameful also his daughter is now working for his company. I asked about the pimpjuice thing and he said while he is not pleased with the name he pointed out the MTV show pimp my ride and seemed to feel that pimp juice could be seen in a different light and is far less vulgar. I do not agree. I would never carry pimp juice.

I would imagine that his response to the sumpoosie brand is not uncommon.

TTB perhaps it would behoove you to also package the product under a less offensive brand name to gain sales where sumpoosie is inappropriate?

SumPoosieCat
05-17-2006, 03:32 PM
.... I am trying my best to remain calm! Poosie is not a word. Poosie was the name of my grandmothers cat. Poosie got away all the time and my grandmother would walk around the neighborhood saying "Here Poosie, Poosie! Where's my little Poosie!!!" Needless to say my friends made fun of me for years!!! I think I was Poosie Boy until I was 15.

I guess my main point is this... a ***** Cat has been a ***** Cat for hundreds of years and Hooters has an owl with girls in tight shorts and big hooters serving you wings. Where is the outrage with Hooters?

It is 2006 and the internet has changed everything. Do you really think a Rabi or Priest is worried about Poosie the Cat? Listen to any Rap song today on any radio station across the country and listen to what they are saying... you will be shocked. SumPoosie is a play on words and is only as dirty as you make it. Are you offended by flock you or Focker or Dock head? My point has always been a very simple one SumPoosie should be sold where liquor is sold. I have been going to bars for many years and have purchased BJ's and Sex on the Beach and Buttery Nipples. Pimp Juice is ok but somehow Poosie is just over the line? Who needs to be protected from Poosie? Children? Adults? Who? If a child can read he can use the internet and 5 minutes on the internet and a child is exposed to a lot more than Poosie the Cat!

SumPoosieCat
05-17-2006, 03:39 PM
By the way... I did design the logo to say Think Pink instead of SumPoosie. I took off the Sum and the oosie and put in Think and ink to the cat logo so it says Think Pink. I registered the Trademark "Think Pink Drink Pink".

I showed the new logo and mark to my best friends wife and the first thing out of her mouth was, "Think pink drink pink... isn't that a little VULGAR?"

:eek: :confused:

Unreal....

Lepke
05-17-2006, 03:52 PM
They called you poosie boy?
I thought TallThinBlonde was a woman’s name.
I thought you were a girl. Now that I know you are a guy I can treat you like crap. :eek:

Lepke
05-17-2006, 03:57 PM
Come on don’t pull that old Energy Dude stuff on me.
We all know exactly what sum poosie means and it’s not a cat.
Energy Dude used to pull that same thing “it’s only dirty in your mind” BS.
Meanwhile how about a thank you for at least trying to promote your product to my friend? Ok so he didn’t want it but I did give you a plug.

greg
05-17-2006, 03:58 PM
I think the SumPoosie name as you think of it is not offensive. It is the consumers that may find the name offensive because they do not know your Grandmother or her cat.

POP
05-17-2006, 03:59 PM
I think TTB is a chick. The cat who was named Poosie is a boy.
Whatever, I'm confused too.

Hey Lepke, I thought you were a equal opportunity offender? jk.

I don't like to rag on chick's either but I especially hate it when chick's are on the rag.

SumPoosieCat
05-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Lol.. yes Lepke thank you very much a plug is a plug. I guess I am just different! Poosie is not offensive to me one bit. If it is unplug your computer and your HBO and Showtime. Don't pick up a magazine like Vogue, or GQ and don't watch tv after 9pm. TallThinBlonde is my name because that is what I like not what I am!

Lepke
05-17-2006, 04:08 PM
LOL@DIZZ

Come on guys you know full well when they came out with this brand name it had nothing to do with a cat.
Yes it’s a double entendre, yes I could mean cat or I could mean vagina. I’m quite sure they meant the later
Don't BS us here.

POP
05-17-2006, 04:09 PM
Oh, in that case, I'm gonna change my name to Stacy Keibler.

Lepke
05-17-2006, 04:11 PM
Can I be Monica Lewinsky?

POP
05-17-2006, 04:15 PM
Haha... My question to you is..
Why?!?!?!

Stacy Keibler's hot!
I'm sure your Rabbi would dig her too.

Lepke, do you like Matisyahu?

Lepke
05-17-2006, 04:20 PM
The Hasidic rap star?
I don’t know any of his stuff but I’m sure there is nothing about liking big B u tts or killing cops in his music.

I think Monica is a cutie
But I’m old and have been married a long time.

[ 05-17-2006, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

Lepke
05-17-2006, 04:28 PM
Unbelievable TTB is a guy!

Now that I know you are a dude I will show no mercy in my future posts about your product.

The gloves are off.
:D

egg beater
05-17-2006, 05:24 PM
Lepke,

You're wrong. Coke is not "killing Rockstar". What were Rockstars numbers in NJ before coke, after Coke?

You probably don't know so I will tell you. Try 4-5 times greater after the Coke deal. This is not to mention all the chain authorizations, exposure, and access Rockstar got through the deal. Dealing with a big distribution system is a challenge no doubt, but the positives FARR out weigh the negatives as far as Rockstar is concerned.

Stop talking trash and bring the facts..just cause you saw some out of stocks in your local c-store doesn't mean a thing!!

Lepke
05-17-2006, 05:46 PM
Egg Beater
If you know the numbers then please post real numbers. “Try 4-5 times greater after the Coke deal.” sounds like opinion not real numbers.

“Stop talking trash and bring the facts..just cause you saw some out of stocks in your local c-store doesn't mean a thing!!”

My local c-store as you put it is a wawa a chain that has authorized rock star two years ago.
But I’m not talking about one wawa near me. I’m talking about a problem they seem to be having receiving product.

I don’t serve chains like wawa I’m getting my info from reps I know in my area.
It’s not “trash talking” it’s passing along what I’ve heard.

I'm sure it’s hard for you but please try not to be a Schmuck.

[ 05-17-2006, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

POP
05-17-2006, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
The Hasidic rap star?
I don’t know any of his stuff but I’m sure there is nothing about liking big B u tts or killing cops in his music.

I think Monica is a cutie
But I’m old and have been married a long time. Not at all, his lyrics are definitely positive.

I think I'm somewhat old also, and very married but that doesn't mean I'm blind.
jk.

Different strokes for different folks!
Cheers to that!

fusion
05-17-2006, 06:11 PM
Rockstar grew 96.5% in 2005. Red Bull 41%.

Doug
05-17-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by fusion:
Rockstar grew 96.5% in 2005. Red Bull 41%. That's nuts

SumPoosieCat
05-17-2006, 06:44 PM
Monster is now No. 1 in LA and very close in Dallas. The 16 ounce can is really knocking Red Bull around. I did see a 16.9 ounce can in Vegas last week but at 3.69 I wasn't going to buy one and according to the shop owner no one else was either. But!!! that is just one store, I guess we will have to see if the public is interested in paying 3.69 for a Red Bull.he

I am hoping that a few distributors come my way now that Rockstar and Monster has kicked them to the curb for Coke and AB.

NRgizR
05-18-2006, 08:28 AM
Doug,
When you say "that's nuts" are you talking about the high % of growth from the two brands or Rockstar having a higher growth %?

SumPoosieCat
05-18-2006, 10:19 AM
I guess it is hard for people to believe what Rockstar and Monster are doing to the once mighty Red Bull.

greg
05-18-2006, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Unbelievable TTB is a guy!

Now that I know you are a dude I will show no mercy in my future posts about your product.

The gloves are off.
:D I guess I am just as guilty as Lepke treating TTB as a female and with kid gloves. I thought TTB was a woman and therefore held back a lot of stuff. Now that I am almost sure TTB is a man my discussions may become a little more aggressive.

Funny how we treat people differently due to gender and societal norms.

Doug
05-18-2006, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by NRgizR:
Doug,
When you say "that's nuts" are you talking about the high % of growth from the two brands or Rockstar having a higher growth %? Just marveling at how much the energy drink business is exploding

NRgizR
05-18-2006, 11:44 AM
TTB,
The once mighty Red Bull is still pretty mighty in the energy cat. Any brand in the beverage business that experiences continued double digit growth is not a used to be. The fact is other brands have less of a base so they are going to see a higher % increase. Red Bull has lost share nationally, however the pie has gotten much larger. I think they'll be OK.

SumPoosieCat
05-18-2006, 01:40 PM
I agree! I think Red Bull will be ok as well. However, a year or two ago who would think that they would lose their number one spot in a number of markets and in San Fransico they are about to become number 3 ! Rockstar and Monster have really made an impact with the 16 ounce can. It seems to be the industry standard. The little 8 ounce can seems to be on the back burner. It's interesting to see how fast things change.

Lepke
05-18-2006, 02:02 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble TTB but the 250 mil can is still the industry standard worldwide.

SumPoosieCat
05-18-2006, 02:28 PM
Worldwide I am sure you are right but in the USA its the 16 ounce can according to Ball, Rexam, and Crowne. The 8 ounce can is quickly becoming an on premise only. What shocked me even more is the rapid growth of the Monster 24 ounce can.

Lepke
05-18-2006, 06:06 PM
More sophisticated consumers prefer the 250 mil can. They also prefer an imported product. The more upscale consumer would not be seen drinking a tall boy of cheep energy drink.
TTB when I thought you were a woman I tried to explain to you that fashion and style are very important to a lot of people. Now that I know you are a guy from Ohio I understand why you didn’t understand.
I guess I’m just a New York snob.

I tried to talk to you about Salvador Ferragamo shoes and nine west and wondered how even a woman from middle America didn’t get it. But now I see you are a guy from the unsophisticated mid west.

Wal-mart may be the king of retail where you live but most people I know would not even think of shopping there.

Yes there is a market for cheep crap and always will be but by the same token the upwardly mobile want a brand name and wouldn’t be caught dead drinking the cheap stuff. That includes me.

Again I’m a snob from NYC. Not a “hick” “rube” “bumpkin” “hayseed” from middle America. :D

[ 05-18-2006, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Lepke ]

the saint
05-18-2006, 07:18 PM
Not that I like them and hate to burst your bubble, but unfortunatly Wal-Mart IS the king of retail everywhere. They just do not have the global penetration that they are seeking yet.

Heck where else are you going to be able to buy eggs, underwear, a garden hose and get your oil changed without going all over town?

I do agree with you on the classes of people and the items purchased. Other than energy drinks (you will notice after reading this) lower income people do not buy much fresh vegetables and fruits. They buy canned crap. Most of the time the fresh is a bit cheaper or not much more than a few pennies more but it has been ingrained into their minds to buy the canned "because it will last longer"

fusion
05-18-2006, 07:23 PM
And they also buy those preservative-laden meats at Walmart. Ground beef shouldn't last for over a week!

Walmart also generally has terrible produce. But the great unwashed masses don't seem to care either way. Every new Walmart opens to a crowd of people.

[ 05-18-2006, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: fusion ]

SumPoosieCat
05-18-2006, 08:48 PM
Lepke maybe you didn't read the above! Monster is NUMBER ONE IN LA. Is LA Sophisticated enough for you? I hope you are not calling Monster and Rockstar Cheap Crap ...

Walmart? What's a Walmart?

Lepke
05-18-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Wow.. Lepke I could not possibly disagree more. This is the Walmart age and most people don't care about quality as much as the do PRICE. Do you really think people will buy Red Bull for 2.99 when they can have Monster or Rockstar for 2.29. Some will because they are die hard Red Bull fans, but most will go for value. This 16 ounce can is a time bomb for Red Bull... very interesting. Looks like you know very well what wal mart is.

In this area illegal alien landscapers and construction workers were the first to catch on to 16-ounce energy drinks. Mostly Monster.

So I am not surprised that in a place like LA 16 ounce is huge. LA is not Manhattan.

egg beater
05-18-2006, 10:12 PM
And Manhattan, as far as energy drinks are concerned, may as well be THE MOON.

The Northeast (including NYC) is the lowest indexing market in the country. To get any idea of trends or major brands in the category you have to go west. Primarily Cali or the Northwest although the Midwest and Texas are also catching on now.

NYC is a joke as far as energy is concerned. you have every no name drink rushing there to make a name for themselves. Meanwhile, people in NYC barely consume ANY energy drinks when compared to a place like LA/San Diego/Las Vegas/Portland etc.


Not sure where this post came from, but something I read sparked it.

the saint
05-18-2006, 10:14 PM
Why you gotta call them illegal aliens??? they are guest workers :D redface.gif LOL

egg beater
05-18-2006, 10:15 PM
I prefer criminal aliens...

the saint
05-18-2006, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by fusion:
And they also buy those preservative-laden meats at Walmart. Ground beef shouldn't last for over a week!

Walmart also generally has terrible produce. But the great unwashed masses don't seem to care either way. Every new Walmart opens to a crowd of people. You must be along way away from the packaging facility, the ground meat ( I will not call it beef) here lasts for a month HAHA.
We had a new WMSC open up here yesterday in the OKC metro. It has 5 acres of parking and there wasn't a spot to be found so I have been told.

After I posted my reply I read your post again and the first time I read it I didn't see the "unwashed" in unwashed masses. That is SOOO true. It seems 1 out of every 5 is all that has regular washings, too bad most of those 1's are either vendors or a couple of the employees.

[ 05-18-2006, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: the saint ]

Lepke
05-18-2006, 10:35 PM
Egg Beater,
While there sure are a lot of no name energy drinks in the NYC metro area.
I think South Florida holds the title of most no name energy drinks.

Again I’m a New York snob … the rest of you are just followers.
:D

Mr Zabe
05-18-2006, 11:11 PM
Again I’m a New York snob … the rest of you are just followers.
Now that was one of the funniest Lepke-isms I have ever read. :D :cool: :D

DJ HawaiianShirt
05-19-2006, 12:02 AM
I just want to remind any non-believers that financial analysts will often cite Walmart numbers to try to describe the welfare of the US economy.

Lepke
05-19-2006, 12:09 AM
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there.

THIRSTY2
05-19-2006, 12:14 AM
Lepke,
If you are a NY snob then why are you from NJ. I think you are a NY wannabe

Lepke
05-19-2006, 12:33 AM
I am born and raised in NYC and moved in 1999 to Matawan NJ a suburb of NYC to raise a family. I get back to NYC several times a month on both business and pleasure.
I don’t know why I need to explain my self to you but I just did. Any more questions?

Mr Zabe
05-19-2006, 12:39 AM
You know the old saying, "Once your a New Yorker,your always a New Yorker". Same with me.I live in a town outside of Chicago, yet I will always call myself a Chicagoan. Call it love of our flagship city where we have our roots.

[ 05-19-2006, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Lepke
05-19-2006, 12:54 AM
Hey THIRSTY,

How about asking a relevant question like how I started a beverage company from nothing with no experience in beverages at all.

Without any company to hold my hand learning the hard way. Going out and opining up my first account in the summer of 1999 never having done it before. And that account is still a good customer today.
I was fortunate to have a mentor and also very good friend with years in the business to advise me. Between the two of them I got some very good advice and did what I wanted to do anyway, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. But it was a great source of comfort to have these people one as mentor the other as friend.

THIRSTY2
05-19-2006, 01:03 AM
I am also a transplanted New Yorker. I have been in Boston for 25 years but I am still a yankee fan! Lepke will you be my mentor?

Lepke
05-19-2006, 01:09 AM
Are you sure you want me as a mentor?
You as much as said you don’t even like me.

johnnyrockets
05-19-2006, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Egg Beater,
While there sure are a lot of no name energy drinks in the NYC metro area.
I think South Florida holds the title of most no name energy drinks.

Again I’m a New York snob … the rest of you are just followers.
:D I'm with you Lepke...LOL

the saint
05-19-2006, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there. you mean you have other places to shop at?? LOL :D

Mr Zabe
05-19-2006, 08:05 AM
I'm on a very limited fixed budget. I shop for price and quality. I have no problem shopping at Wal-Mart.

greg
05-19-2006, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Are you sure you want me as a mentor?
You as much as said you don’t even like me. Big difference between "Like" and "Respect"

greg
05-19-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there. How many people do you know?
Wal-Mart is the # 1 retailer in the World. Somebody must be shgopping there!

Lepke
05-19-2006, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by greg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lepke:
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there. How many people do you know?
Wal-Mart is the # 1 retailer in the World. Somebody must be shgopping there! </font>[/QUOTE]I actually know a lot of people. Well a lot is relative. I’m still friends with people I went to kindergarten with. Most of my friends have been friends for many years. But that’s another story.

Wal-Mart is a relative new comer to NYC. And there is a lot of shopping in the city.
Many of my friends are on the liberal side and have a “social conscience”. These people see Wal-Mart as a place that harms small business and town centers all over the country.
A company that became the number one retailer by forcing their way into places that wanted to keep them out. Vermont is a fine example of that tactic. A company that pays starvation wages and demands American companies move manufacturing to china.

After Wal-Mart and other “big box” stores like Home Depot kill off all the local competition, people no longer have a choice of where to shop.
Many of the folks I know feel Wal-Mart became number one through mean and unethical business practices.
For some strange reason these people don’t seem to have a problem shopping at Target or Koles.

It’s a complicated issue with good arguments on both sides. I don’t think the bevbord is really the place for this kind of debate.

CStoreCatMan
05-19-2006, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by egg beater:
And Manhattan, as far as energy drinks are concerned, may as well be THE MOON.

The Northeast (including NYC) is the lowest indexing market in the country. To get any idea of trends or major brands in the category you have to go west. Primarily Cali or the Northwest although the Midwest and Texas are also catching on now.

Very true. I would even venture to say California is probably at least 1-2 years ahead of the country in terms of trends (more compared to certain regions)...especially energy. 16oz took off here a few years ago and has been booming ever since. And Red Bull is starting to lose its massive dominance...for example, I just got some sales numbers from a local account...

Red Bull sold 353,882 units...
Monster 16oz sold 284,677...
Rockstar 16oz sold 159,415...

Also, of the top 10 energy drinks in this account..only 2 brands were 8oz. The other 8 were 16oz packages. I think that tells the story.

Red Bull's dominance is almost over. Yes, they are still the #1 selling item in a cold vault...but it doesn't appear that will remain the case for much longer. Monster is nipping at its heels and 16oz energy as a whole has already DWARFED the 8oz category.

SumPoosieCat
05-19-2006, 11:50 AM
Lepke again, you could not be more wrong. Let me clue you in on the facts. No one is saying that Walmart employee's are rich but the facts are this ... they have benefits and health care. Many of those mom and pop and smaller stores Walmart puts out of business give their employee's nothing! The owner drives his fancy car around town and the employee's only get an hourly. Maybe your liberal friends need to know the facts.

Yes Cstorecat it is clear to see that the 16 ounce can is now the rule in the USA ! Red Bull is late to the party on the 16 ounce can and pricing their new 16.9 can at 3.69 is also a huge mistake in my opinion. They seem kinda out of touch with what is going on in this market now.

SumPoosieCat
05-19-2006, 11:53 AM
With such wonderful associates working for our team, Walmart is pleased to provide our associates with the best Walmart employee benefit package available. Walmart feels that our associates are our most prized resource and we are grateful for their excellent service twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Providing a generous Walmart employee benefit package to our associates is just one of the ways we say, “Thank you,” to every associate who works for Walmart.

The Walmart employee benefit package includes superb, affordable health coverage for our associates which provides individual health coverage beginning under twenty dollars per pay period and family coverage under seventy-five dollars. Additionally, unlike many other available medical plans, after the first year, the Walmart employee benefit package has no lifetime maximum for most expenses.

With the Walmart employee benefit package, associates have access to internationally acclaimed health care facilities such as the Mayo Clinic, Stanford University Hospital, and Johns Hopkins University Hospital. Our associates can be admitted to these excellent health care facilities and many others without prior insurance approval. It is just one of the additional benefits of our superb Walmart employee benefit package.

Furthermore, the Walmart employee benefit package includes a traditional four percent contribution to the combined Profit Sharing and 401(k) plan. Bonuses and other incentives are granted year-round to our hourly associates and management alike for helping Walmart achieve its goals.

Lepke
05-19-2006, 12:10 PM
I didn’t say I necessarily agree with my liberal friends and family but they do make some good points.

What Wal-Mart fails to tell you in their web page about the wonderful benefits package is that full time employment is very hard to get at Wal-Mart, almost everyone is hired as a part time employee in order not to give them the benefits.

Up in Canada recently the employees voted to unionize so Wal-Mart just closed the store instead of paying a living wage.

I have mixed feelings about Wal-Mart. I do realize that many working Americans who otherwise could not afford new school cloths for their kids can get them at Wal-Mart at a price they can afford.

I get it. There are plusses and minuses.

I try not to shop there myself but there are times when I can only get it there.
I also try not to patronize businesses that hire illegal aliens but sometimes that’s hard to do as well.

Is the energy drink forum on bevnet the place for this debate?

DJ HawaiianShirt
05-19-2006, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there. You clearly live in your own NY/NJ bubble.

Hey, whatever makes you happy.

NRgizR
05-19-2006, 12:20 PM
TTB,
I hope you posted that as a joke. I'm sure you don't believe that corp. jargon. Those benifits sound OK if your MGMT but you can't tell me every swinging thing that wants a job there get treated equal.
Lepke,
Your write this isn't the place to discuss WalMart but being from the Midwest, we hillbillies can't help ourselves. ;)

Lepke
05-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by DJ HawaiianShirt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lepke:
Most of the people I know call it “the evil Wal-Mart” and will not shop there. You clearly live in your own NY/NJ bubble.

Hey, whatever makes you happy. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess there are class differences. It’s not my own bubble but the circles I run in. people I know go to stores like Macy's, Bloomingdales and Fortunoff. Some middleclass and upper middleclass people just wouldn’t be caught dead at Wal-Mart.



Originally posted by NRgizR:
TTB,
.
Lepke,
Your write this isn't the place to discuss WalMart but being from the Midwest, we hillbillies can't help ourselves. ;) LOL

I didn’t mean to offend with all that hayseed and red neck stuff. It was meant as a joke and I hope it was taken in that light. I suppose there is some truth in jest.

CStoreCatMan
05-19-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
Yes Cstorecat it is clear to see that the 16 ounce can is now the rule in the USA ! Red Bull is late to the party on the 16 ounce can and pricing their new 16.9 can at 3.69 is also a huge mistake in my opinion. They seem kinda out of touch with what is going on in this market now. Agreed. With Monster nipping at Red Bull's heels, I find it interesting that they think they can charge over $3.50 per 16.9oz can! I think they just took the best opportunity they had to maintain brand dominance (in a 16oz can) and threw it away...

Why don't we have the Wal-Mart debate in the "Free for All" forum...

[ 05-19-2006, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

NRgizR
05-19-2006, 02:50 PM
LOL

I didn’t mean to offend with all that hayseed and red neck stuff. It was meant as a joke and I hope it was taken in that light. I suppose there is some truth in jest. I did take it as a joke. Hey we are from where we are from. I will say that I agree with you on most posts. I too have been in the business for many years and feel your right on with many of your comments.

As far as Red Bull thinking they can get $3.50 for a 16.6oz...Why shouldn't they try it. Everyone thought they were crazy with a $2 8.3oz. If It doesn't work then regroup. But give it a shot.
The fact is the CSD companies are trying to bastardize the price on a category that provides higher margins. Typical move to try and capture sales for their share holders.
In our market CCE will offer cheaper cost on CSD 20oz if you participate in their energy drink CMA. Another way of forcing there flagship brand.

CStoreCatMan
05-24-2006, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by NRgizR:
[QUOTE]LOL
As far as Red Bull thinking they can get $3.50 for a 16.6oz...Why shouldn't they try it. Everyone thought they were crazy with a $2 8.3oz. If It doesn't work then regroup. But give it a shot.
The fact is the CSD companies are trying to bastardize the price on a category that provides higher margins. Typical move to try and capture sales for their share holders.
In our market CCE will offer cheaper cost on CSD 20oz if you participate in their energy drink CMA. Another way of forcing there flagship brand. Well not all of the CSD companies are the same. Heck, we want to enjoy the high margins e-drinks provide just like you do. As for my company, we have separate CMA's for CSD, energy, etc. etc. We do not leverage one against another...

Secondly, Red Bull can try to sell their 16.9oz at $3.50 and up...but I have to ask a question. WHY would a consumer pay almost $1.50 more for a Red Bull 16oz when they can pick up a Monster or Rock Star for around $2??? And I don't want to hear "because its Red Bull." That's a ridiculous answer. Let's be realistic...consumers are getting smarter and will see right through this...who does RB think they are...a petroleum company?!?! :D

[ 05-24-2006, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

SumPoosieCat
05-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Very well said Cstorecat... I could not agree more. The numbers say your right on!

NRgizR
05-25-2006, 09:48 AM
C-Store wrote- Secondly, Red Bull can try to sell their 16.9oz at $3.50 and up...but I have to ask a question. WHY would a consumer pay almost $1.50 more for a Red Bull 16oz when they can pick up a Monster or Rock Star for around $2??? And I don't want to hear "because its Red Bull." That's a ridiculous answer. Let's be realistic...consumers are getting smarter and will see right through this...who does RB think they are...a petroleum company?!?!
That is an excellent question to ask, Why would they pay more??? My question is; Why do more consumers pay $2 for a can of Red Bull than they do for a Monster 16oz at $2 or less. I'm sure TTB will give examples of other cities where Monster is doing well. I'm speaking today and nationally.
Also, I never said I was with an energy company.
Anyway, good debate. This is a Constantly Changing Environment (wait that's CCE).

SumPoosieCat
05-25-2006, 11:27 AM
The point is NRgizR an ever growing percentage of the people ARE NOT choosing to buy a 2 dollar 8 ounce can. They are choosing to buy a 2 dollar 16 ounce can. That is why Monster has taken over the Number One spot in a few areas and poised to take over the Number One spot in more than a dozen areas around the country. To sit back and pretend that what is quickly happening in the market place is silly. Who thought 2 years ago Rockstar and Monster would be digging so deep into the pockets of Red Bull?
Granted Red Bull is not in the poor house but in 2006 more energy drink in the USA will be sold in a 16 ounce can than in an 8 ounce can. That... is big news!

-VV-
05-25-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
To sit back and pretend that what is quickly happening in the market place is silly. Agreed. So why do you continuously characterize Red Bull's double digit growth as a liability?

They aren't LOSING anything.

Which is better - 40% of a 4 billion dollar market or 30% of a 6 billion dollar market? In that same hypothetical scenario, you could argue that the company in question lost 10% market share. While technically true, they still increased profits by almost 14%. So the point that they lost market share is actually irrelevant. It only becomes an issue when and if the market levels off and they continue to lose share.

But if it makes you feel better to think that Red Bull is in trouble, then by all means. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Lepke
05-25-2006, 02:22 PM
People are going to buy and continue to buy red bull because it is red bull. Like it or not.
Energy drinks are functional beverages and many people will view a cheaper price as a cheaper product. Again, like it or not.
Many people like the flavor of red bull and will buy it because of that.
Others will buy it for the same reason people buy designer anything, because of the name.
Still others don’t want to drink 16 ounces of energy drink in one sitting.
Some will buy it because it’s imported and they like imported products.
Some will buy it because of marketing or sponsorship.
Some people want what they perceive as higher quality and will pay the price.
PEOPLE WILL PAY MORE FOR WHAT THEY WANT!
Is that so hard to understand?
Red bull doesn’t need to be every can of energy drink sold in America, they need to make a profit.

And who saw two years ago that rock star was a contender? Red bull did.
Bevnet thread from February 2004

http://www.bevnet.com/bevboard/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000095

The less sophisticated will always buy what’s cheapest, the most product for their money.
Others will seek out perceived quality.

Mr Zabe
05-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Well said. smile.gif

NRgizR
05-25-2006, 02:36 PM
TTB,
That may be the case with total 16oz vs 8.3....That's not what I said.

Lepke,
Well said. We could try to reason the values of what people perceive to be their drink but at this point all rational thoughts are falling on deaf ears.

Lepke
05-25-2006, 02:50 PM
At this point I’m sure TTB is EnergyDude.

It’s the same talking to a brick wall as talking to EnergyDude or Damon.
Any older member will know what I’m talking about.

There are a lot of various products on the market I consider over priced and I will not buy.
But these companies are not going out of business because I’m too cheap or just don’t think it’s worth the price or can’t afford to buy them.

I don’t understand what these people don’t understand.

Some people buy chuck steak others buy rib eye and still some buy filet mignon.

Mr Zabe
05-25-2006, 03:14 PM
Just another example. I always buy Heinz Ketchup no matter what. There are a few brands that compete on price and a few store brands that are cheaper than the other brands. Heinz Ketchup IMO is the best tasting ketchup and saving 25 to 75 cents a bottle is not even a thought.

The above is an example of an inelastic demand. Demand will stay the same regardless of price increases. So is the theory of hard core Energy drinkers. smile.gif Energy drinkers (hard core) buy what they want regardless of relative prices of other energy drinks. Benefit and effect over ride discount savings realized from other B-List brands.

[ 05-25-2006, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Mr Zabe ]

Lepke
05-25-2006, 03:26 PM
I think I’m going to find the cheapest energy drink formula I can find, package it in a plain white 16 oz can with black letters that say ENERGY DRINK then I will retail it at 89¢.
With the logic of SUM people it should make me a millionaire.

Mr Zabe
05-25-2006, 03:28 PM
and land you in divorce court. LMAO!!!!!!!

greg
05-25-2006, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
I think I’m going to find the cheapest energy drink formula I can find, package it in a plain white 16 oz can with black letters that say ENERGY DRINK then I will retail it at 89¢.
With the logic of SUM people it should make me a millionaire. I remember a beer company trying that method. FLOP!

DJ HawaiianShirt
05-25-2006, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
I think I’m going to find the cheapest energy drink formula I can find, package it in a plain white 16 oz can with black letters that say ENERGY DRINK then I will retail it at 89¢.
With the logic of SUM people it should make me a millionaire. That's a humorous yet effective point.

Let's take it a little further.

Let's take that mediocre formula and pump millions of dollars into its advertising. Let's advertise and give free samples at extreme sports events. Let's make commercials that focus on its function and not its taste. Let's set up coolers in bars to give it a hip image.

Let's change how it's perceived(I like your word there), and only that.

THEN let's see how rich it makes you. ;)

Lepke
05-25-2006, 03:45 PM
I didn’t say red bull was the best. I did as you pointed out say, “perceived” as the best.

SURGE
05-25-2006, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Lepke:
I didn’t say red bull was the best. I did as you pointed out say, “perceived” as the best. I agree with the posts that say that Red Bull is still growing. Still I think its important to remember that if RB share goes down that has alot of effect on the percieved quality of the brand. If Red Bull becomes number two or three, even if volume is growing, they will lose the abuility to command a premium and their brand will no longer be synonimoius with "energy drink". I really think a $2.99 would have done the brand far more good than $3.50. Still there is no doubt in my mind that the Bull is here to stay-they just need to be carefull that they dont lose too much share.

SumPoosieCat
05-25-2006, 05:05 PM
Lepke you can call me Energydude if you like but he is no longer here.

Secondly, be specific are you saying Monster is Chuck Steak and Red Bull is Filet Mignon?

And who perceives Red Bull being the best? You?

Lastly, the point being made is Rockstar and Monster are kicking Red Bull to the curb like they are a little lost boy who has lost his Teddy Bear. Red Bull's response has been to come out with their own 16.9 ounce can and it seems they are late to the party. And at a price of 3.69 it seems they are living in the glory days... not May 2006.

You don't have to agree with me Lepke but to ignore the fact that Monster has now taken the Number 1 spot in the largest energy drink market in the country (LA) seems a bit silly. Yes the market is growing and Red Bull is still making money but... Monster and Rockstar are growing faster and eating up market share. Who would have thought?

The Truth
05-25-2006, 05:33 PM
The change over may slow down Monster, is Bud going to put on more trucks to work non beer stores. I don't think so.

SumPoosieCat
05-25-2006, 05:42 PM
Yes I am sure the switch to one of the largest distribution networks in the world will slow them down...???

Non beer stores ???

NRgizR
05-26-2006, 11:04 AM
TTB,
I think the point being made about AB's distribution is still a question. AB is no doubt a huge company. However they don't produce and distribute. There are hundreds of independent distributors out there. They are the ones who will have to step up and have addition trucks and sales reps for those accounts not carrying beer. So the question is; Will they service only On Premise accounts or only those markets that do not have dry counties?

Coke's "network" is completely different. CCE produces and distributes to over 85% of the country. Also, all other distributors are very strong and play the game with KO very closely. CCE has the 3rd largest fleet behind the US Postal Service and UPS. That gives them the advantage... Much more than AB.

SumPoosieCat
05-26-2006, 12:34 PM
Lol... you have to be kidding. I will say it one more time. AB has one of the largest and most sophisticated distribution systems in the world and the money to add as many trucks as needed.

NRgizR
05-26-2006, 01:28 PM
TTB,
Who distributes AB products in your area?

CStoreCatMan
05-26-2006, 04:23 PM
TTB - the question is still...

WILL AB DELIVER TO STORES THAT DON'T SELL BEER? There are stores out there that don't sell beer you know!

Will AB take the time, labor, fuel, trucks, etc to deliver ONLY MONSTER to those locations?

NinePieceChickenDinner
05-26-2006, 05:32 PM
Also in some states there is more "dry" territory than "wet". Sometimes it is not very cost effective for beer distributors to send a few cases to accounts in sparsely populated dry counties.

Mr Zabe
05-26-2006, 07:20 PM
Friends, It's not the sales of many small Ma & Pa accounts that AB picked up the energy line. It's for marketing and sale of the large voulme accounts. AB now can find another way to promote it's beer. Cross marketing will fare well for both lines in the high volume accounts.

Dose this make any sense or I'm way off base? smile.gif

SumPoosieCat
05-26-2006, 08:42 PM
Monster will help AB look cool to the young crowd it is a win/win for both. Hansen's is doing everything right.

-VV-
05-27-2006, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by CStoreCatMan:
TTB - the question is still...

WILL AB DELIVER TO STORES THAT DON'T SELL BEER? There are stores out there that don't sell beer you know!

Will AB take the time, labor, fuel, trucks, etc to deliver ONLY MONSTER to those locations? My Red Bull distributor is primarily a liquor distributor. Red Bull is the only energy drink they carry, and they service everything from the central part of the state all the way to the southern tip, whether the store serves beer and wine or not.

It won't be an issue.

[ 07-13-2006, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: -VV- ]

SumPoosieCat
05-27-2006, 08:04 AM
The answer is YES if it makes them money!!! But what stores are we talking about that don't sell beer??? The percentage is so small who cares??? Hansen's Monster Energy Drink now has 100% coverage across the USA.

Look Red Bull was the thing a few years ago but now you can see Monster and Rockstar and the 16 ounce can are the hot thing today. Monster hooked up with AB and Rockstar with Coke. What has Red Bull done lately... they introduced a 16.9 ounce can for nearly 4 bucks...hmmmm somebody better tell them its not 2002 anymore.

-VV-
05-27-2006, 11:17 AM
I think we get it. You think Red Bull is doomed, done in by Rockstar and Monster and the 16oz can. Can we move on?

SumPoosieCat
05-27-2006, 11:48 AM
This is a board for discussion, debate, and information. I am simply making an observation of what I see going on in the market place. Red Bull is not doomed but they have put themselves in a very bad position. Just 24 months ago Red Bull was king throughout the USA... today they are not! The 16 ounce can has hit them and hit them hard. What do they do now? Do they have a plan? Please tell me their plan is not a 16 ounce can for nearly 4 bucks! I am not here to argue or start a fight I am here to listen to opinions on what Red Bull is going to do. Maybe nothing and just continue to lose out to Monster and Rockstar... I don't know what do all of you think?

Lepke
05-27-2006, 12:14 PM
Red bull will remain king of on premise. Many red bull distributors only carry red bull, so from these they will continue to receive 100% focus. In the markets where the distributor carries other products RBNA will continue to strongly promote and market to the on premise accounts maintaining their number one status in this channel.
Nightclub patrons have come to expect the flavor profile of red bull in this type of mixed drink.

I’ve made the point countless times that you cant replace tonic water with sprite or cola with root beer. You can however use any brand of cola or tonic water. The same goes with mixing energy drinks. You can’t substitute fruit punch soda or orange soda for red bull when a consumer/guest orders a red bull and vodka.

Being king on premise will continue to translate to sales off premise.

As far as what red bull will do to regain lost market share, I have no idea.
What can they do?

In New Jersey beer is only sold in liquor stores. I wonder what AB and Hansen’s will do to service all of their existing monster customers?

SumPoosieCat
05-28-2006, 01:02 AM
The question is if Red Bull continues to lose market share and the trend continues with the 16 ounce can... will these Red Bull only distributors have to start cutting back??? Is the ride over?

ROX Girl
05-29-2006, 08:56 AM
Coke and Pepsi are beginning to attack the On Premise side of Red Bull Distribution. They have the ability to attach exclusivity to their existing contracts. And, have already begun doing just that. They took over Red Bulls #1 On Premise account here in SC. It will be very interesting to watch 2006 and 2007 pan out with Coke, Pepsi, and Bud deciding to be major players in e drink distribution.

The Truth
05-29-2006, 11:06 AM
TallThinBlonde, I will make it simple for you. In the state of North Carolina the towns vote to have beer or not. Not all towns have beer. If you are not in city limits you can not sell beer.

In South Carolina it is done by county either all of county or none.

Thats what we are talking about. We are wondering how other states are done.

In North Carolina all beer must be payed for when you get. Will they set up charge accounts like the soft drink people do for Monster. Most chains won't pay cash unless forced to.

Many question, not a slam dunk in this part of the country.

SumPoosieCat
05-29-2006, 11:25 AM
Let me make it simple for you... AB has one of the largest distribution networks in the world! If it makes them money they will distribute to every single county dry or not!!! They have the money and trucks to do it...

Monster with a stroke of a pen has more than tripled the areas that can now be serviced with Monster!

The Truth
05-29-2006, 01:05 PM
One more time will they set up charge accounts like the soft drink people do for Monster. Most chains won't pay cash unless forced to.

Since you know more than people with 30 years in the biz. Tell us about how they will set up the charge accounts.

Coco Rico
05-29-2006, 01:11 PM
TTB,

As you are fond of saying "AB has one of the largest distribution networks in the world!"

So what are your answers for:
Eagle Snacks
Doc Otis
Tequiza
180 (original or rebranded package)
180 Sport
B to the E
Tilt

These are all brands that were supported by "one of the world's largest distributors" and have either been dc'd or are on their way out.

Do you think that AB would ever leverage Monster against their own brands - particularly in the on premise where Monster desperately needs help? AB distributors sell beer, they have that mind set and good luck convincing them that they need to change the way they approach the business to accommodate a non alc beverage.

They'll make a good show of it. Getting some new placements, beating Red Bull out of a couple top accounts, etc. However, when 3rd quarter numbers come out and they show that Budweiser is still down and that beer is still down as a category, what do you think is going to become their priority - an energy drink or the beer that bears the company's name?

I think in the long run this move was a mistake for Monster. Look at what happened to Sobe when it was sold to Pepsi, and look at Rockstar with Coke. I know Rockstar is still doing ok in some areas (mostly west coast), but they were the dominant #2 in the e-drink category and now they are lucky to be holding on to #3 - having been soundly passed by Monster.

Monster is burning bridges with a lot of smaller distributors that were passionate about the brand and were instrumental in its phenomenal growth and success. Do you think these spurned distributors are going to sit back and watch the transition or do you think they might seek to use the network and contacts they built with Monster to push another 16oz and take share away from Monster?

Now Monster is headed to one of the most arrogant and stubborn distribution networks in the world (I know, I used to work with them.) This same network this year is also bringing on Grolsch, Rolling Rock, Tiger Beer (singapore), they are still working out the launch of their Jeckyl and Hyde brand of shooters, and they have their new Peels malt fruit drinks launching... In addition to the hundreds of other SKUs they already currently manage... Ultimately Monster, Lost and Rumba are just not going to get the attention they deserve.

Why do you think Red Bull never gave over its distribution to one of these massive national distributors? They have always known that a smaller more focused approach is ultimately the best way to stay nimble and ahead of the competition.

And regardless of what you need to tell yourself to get some sleep at night - Red Bull is still light years ahead of the competition in sales (domestic and international), personnel, brand awareness, and pop culture status. Oh and they are far more profitable since they have yet to sacrifice their price point or give away the bank with freebies to intice customers to sell their product.

My $.02

CR

The Truth
05-29-2006, 01:17 PM
VERY well said!!

SumPoosieCat
05-29-2006, 04:20 PM
Coco you seem a bit out of touch. Red Bull has sat by while Monster has passed them by in the largest energy drink market in the USA (LA)!
Red Bull is not number one in LA MONSTER is! Monster is poised to take them over in a dozen cities across the country in the next few months and you STILL don't see a problem? I guess you can sit back and comment on all the things Monster is doing wrong but it is Monster who is taking over and passing Red Bull.

Instead of telling me the huge mistake Monster is making with AB why don't you tell me about the mistakes Red Bull has made that would allow Monster to take their number one spot in LA in just a few years!!!

How does Red Bull plan to turn things around???
Not with a 16.9 ounce can for almost 4 bucks I can tell you that much... it is laying an egg in Vegas!

About 20 years ago the largest car company in the world started to lose market share to the japanese and they said, "Hey its no big deal, more people are buying cars!" That company today is a shell of its former self and those pesky little japanese companies named Honda and Toyota are very profitable and successful. Meanwhile, that big auto company with attitude is on the brink of filing chapter 11.

By the way... because Red Bull has not dropped their price point Rockstar and Monster have been allowed to grow and grow! Why? because people believe they get more value with a 16 ounce can. If Monster and Rockstar could they would send a letter to Red Bull corporate thanking them for keeping their price point, I am sure they hope Red Bull continues to believe they should charge the public nearly twice as much for a like product.

As far as Monster kicking their current distributors to the curb and leaving them without a 16 ounce energy drink. I am hoping to pick up a few of them and convince them SumPoosie will sell just as well!

My $.02

Drayton

reset man
05-29-2006, 10:21 PM
As you are fond of saying "AB has one of the largest distribution networks in the world!"

So what are your answers for:
Eagle Snacks
Doc Otis
Tequiza
180 (original or rebranded package)
180 Sport
B to the E
Tilt

I only liked Eagle Snacks out of that bunch. Great honey roasted peanuts. I used to work for an AB distributor about 15 years ago. I keep kidding their sales manager if they bring in some soft drink products I'm ready to come back. Monster sounds like the right start to me. I don't buy it because it's bigger than Red Bull, I buy it because I like it better than Red Bull. If Red Bull was made in a 16oz. can with the same retail as Monster, I would still buy Monster or the Lost Energy. Also, many AB distributors do have seperate soft drink divisions in place. I know AB does give extra funding for being exclusive with their products but some realize the profits in a seperate soft drink division. Add a 16oz. PET juice, a bottled water, an RTD Tea and a premium 12oz. glass soda to the Monster and I am their!!

reset man
05-29-2006, 10:44 PM
One more time will they set up charge accounts like the soft drink people do for Monster. Most chains won't pay cash unless forced to.

Since you know more than people with 30 years in the biz. Tell us about how they will set up the charge accounts.

In N.Y. state I worked for a beer distributor with a seperate soft drink division. We had a seperate sales force for beer and soft drinks. We would actually have two seperate account #'s for an account that purchased both beer and soft drinks from us. Beer terms for the beer account # and soft drink terms for soft drink acct. #.

The Truth
05-30-2006, 09:14 AM
I talked to driver that worked for Bud somewhere in NY and he said that most conv. stores did not sell beer. Some old law. Things a very different many places.

DJ HawaiianShirt
05-30-2006, 11:37 AM
This is all surprising. Even my home state of Virginia, which is a Commonwealth that uses archaic laws, has c-stores with beer. And liquor stores in VA have to be state-owned and operated.

Coco Rico
05-30-2006, 01:49 PM
TTB,

I find it interesting that you have no hard data on your own products but you have definitive data on Monster just kicking Red Bull's ass all over the country. What is the source of this data?

Look, I'm not going to pretend that Monster isn't very strong in certain channels in certain markets because they are. But to make a claim that Monster beats Red Bull across all channels - c-store, liquor, grocery, mass merch, military, vending, on-premise, chain stores, indy stores, etc... is a very bold statement and one that I would expect backed up with solid irrefutable data. Can you provide it? Or are your facts based on hearsay?

CR

SumPoosieCat
05-30-2006, 05:13 PM
I get the latest beverage numbers from Ball. The service they subscribe to is very expensive so I get the latest numbers from them.

and... I did not claim Monster beats Red Bull across all channels and... I did not say I know more than people 30 years in the biz...

I did say Monster and Rockstar are growing and in some areas passing Red Bull. I also said AB has one of the largest distribution networks in the world.

You want me to answer questions about how they will set up charge accounts or what about Eagle Snacks???

None of that stuff answers the questions about Red Bull and what they have been doing and what they are doing. If many of you feel the AB thing is a bad deal I guess time will tell.

What I want to discuss is how did Red Bull get passed by or how are they being caught in various markets. We all know it is happening the question is what do they do now? Do they have a plan?

Coco two years ago I am sure you couldn't imagine anyone catching up to Red Bull. It seems the 16 ounce can by Monster and Rockstar are doing just that. What do they do now?

reset man
05-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Most c-stores in New York sell beer products. Some choose not to get their beer license but they have the option. Beer is also sold in pharmacies, major grocery chains, beverage centers, etc. Pretty much everywhere groceries are sold.

CStoreCatMan
06-08-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by TallThinBlonde:
What I want to discuss is how did Red Bull get passed by or how are they being caught in various markets. We all know it is happening the question is what do they do now? Do they have a plan?

Coco two years ago I am sure you couldn't imagine anyone catching up to Red Bull. It seems the 16 ounce can by Monster and Rockstar are doing just that. What do they do now? It's my feeling that RB waited too long to enter the 16oz market and relied on the success of the 8oz for a bit too long. Consumers saw that they could get TWICE as much energy drink for about the same price...not to mention many seem to like the tastes/flavors of other e-drinks better than RB. More alternatives came while RB sat idle...then in 2006 they test a 16.9oz can for almost $4??? Not good decision making over there IMO...not sure what they're going to do now, but they have definitely lost a LOT of ground in this market.

SumPoosieCat
06-08-2006, 01:59 PM
CstoreCatMan... there are a lot of Red Bull people on this board and it seems they too have no answers.

Coco Rico
06-08-2006, 03:42 PM
I think it's a little premature to discredit Red Bull's test of a premium priced 16oz. If you think about it, the strategy behind it is pretty ingenius. We all know that for the last 2 years, Red Bull has been trying to convince retailers to raise the price of their 16oz competitors. Realistically, retailers are leaving money on the table by charging the same as an 8oz. However, it's hard to get a retailer to raise the price on something that's not yours.

Red Bull being the category leader (regardless what you think TTB) now comes out with a 16oz priced at $3.29 - $3.49. With their dominance in the category, consumers will gravitate towards it and what do you think will happen next? Retailers will see that a higher priced 16oz is feasible and they will raise the prices of every 16oz drink across the board. Why wouldn't they, their profits would be ridiculous.

Anyway, Red Bull then maintains the price integrity of a their 8oz at $1.99, their 16oz still remains a value at just over three dollars without excessive cannibalization of their 8oz, and bye bye Monster, Rockstar, etc. The reason why 16oz drinks have been growing at the rate that they are is that Red Bull has no presence yet in that segment. It's the same reason why no 8oz was ever successfull against Red Bull - regardless how cheaply priced they were. Red Bull will enter the 16oz segment and with the strength of their brand and marketing abilities they will take over.

Seriously, if I were a 16oz competitor to Red Bull - right now I would be extremely nervous. We'll see what the next 12 months hold but I wouldn't count Red Bull out. They have over 1,000 employees in the US who's singular focus is maintaining the dominance of 1 brand...

My $.02,

CR

CStoreCatMan
06-08-2006, 03:42 PM
I wonder how the Vegas test went on the 16.9oz can...for two reasons. First, I wonder how consumers reacted to the $3.69 price point we heard about. Second, if people WERE buying the 16.9oz...what did that do to their 8oz sales?

I think the 16.9oz can could work VERY well if they price it competitively. They could still be a little more expensive than the competition...but not the $1 (and change) they are with the test. Also, I'm sure they've thrown around the idea of a new flavor or two...but I bet cannibalization is a big concern.

CStoreCatMan
06-08-2006, 03:53 PM
CR, I understand your thinking. However, if I'm Monster and Rockstar I wouldn't let retailers take my products up in price without reaping more profits myself! If the category retails move up...costs will go up. No manufacturer lets a retailer just run away with ALL the profits. That's Business 101.

Secondly, just because RB has been the undisputed heavyweight in 8oz energy DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY mean it will continue with 16oz. Remember, they were the FIRST energy drink on the market which is what catapulted them in the first place. IMO, many of the brands available today have improved on potency and flavor. The reason Monster and RS are successful is because they are DIFFERENT than RB for the reasons I just mentioned. Also, the Monster and Rockstar cans look WAY "cooler" than Red Bull's. In the eyes of a teenager, the way you look to your friends and peers is VERY important! The clothes you wear, the car you drive, etc, etc all make a statement about you and how you are perceived by others. Do not discredit how important perception is to a young adult!

The one thing I do agree with you on is that the next year will be interesting. I expect all of the big energy companies to get very aggressive in 2007...prepare for the ENERGY WARS!

[ 06-08-2006, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

Coco Rico
06-08-2006, 04:32 PM
CStoreCatMan,

I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding the ability to control retail pricing. Look at the case of Red Bull. They have been in the US for over 8 years now - in that entire time they have never increased their per case price, and regardless of their efforts to keep Red Bull at $1.99, the retailers kept jacking up the price until now the average is more like $2.19 - $2.29 a can. In some markets, even higher.

Once retailers sense that they can make more money off an item - they will and there's no way to stop them unless you continue to deeply discount and then, how do you maintain your profitability?

Secondly, on the surface you're right: just because Red Bull dominates 8oz doesn't necessarily mean that they will dominate the 16oz category. However, and this is something that Red Bull doesn't openly share - they have larger package sizes in other countries that not only dominate, but dominate without cannibilizing their 8oz... I learned that little tid bit on a recent trip to visit a friend who runs a beer distributor in Australia (sidenote: Foster's is not Australian for beer...) I stumbled across Red Bull in grocery and c-stores that came in these big ass bottles - I think they were 350 or 450 ml, I can't remember. Anyway, I talked to a couple of retailers down there and they said Red Bull launched them a few years back and just took off -higher price and all. Granted, this is a different country, however, it still merits consideration,.

You're also right in that RS and Monster are different and this has lead to some of their success, but to say they look "cooler" is just way to subjective... and a little out of touch. The reality is - and you can choose to believe this or not, I don't care - but if you really look at the data, the majority of 16oz drinkers don't drink it for the cool factor or the aesthetics, but rather, they drink it because it's a value proposition and they see it as an alternative to 20oz soda. Ask the soda people here, they're the ones getting killed by the 16oz, not Red Bull. Sure Red Bull's losing share, but the're still growing at a phenomenal rate - I believe they're on track to sell 1.5 billion cans in the US alone this year. They just bought 2 Formula 1 teams, and next year they will be the first wholly sponsor owned team in Nascar. They're doing quite well for themselves.

CR

CStoreCatMan
06-08-2006, 06:37 PM
Actually, CONSUMERS dictate pricing by what they are and are not willing to pay. If the prices get too high...they will find something else to drink. Ask any beverage fan here...there is a cap on what they're willing to spend.

Secondly, I work for a large bev company...we DO NOT allow retailers to take extra margin on us. We base our cost to a retailer on a suggested retail price because we forecast how much product will sell at a particular price. If the retailer tries to jack up the price and take margin on us...our cost to him goes up. I've seen it before - any other industry person here would back me on that.

Any other country is not the USA. I understand your observation...but its like comparing apples and oranges. Heck, in places like Thailand, they actually LIKE drinks like Coke Blak!! :D

BTW - I'm not trying to be argumentative with you...but my views come from my own knowledge and experiences - 10 years in the industry in business and account development. Again..just my $0.02

[ 06-08-2006, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

CStoreCatMan
06-08-2006, 06:47 PM
One more thing...I think the "cool" factor affects the younger crowd more than the older crowd...which is what I said originally. Don't believe me? You think a 16 year old guy on the football team would be caught dead drinking a can of TAB ENERGY?

And yes, Red Bull continues to grow. But, Monster is growing FASTER...and catching up. I have an account here where ALL of Red Bull's items outsold ALL of Hansens items by ONLY 64,000 units. Both brands sold well over 1 million units...and with that base Red Bull BARELY outsold Hansens. That says to me RB is not growing as fast as its competition.

Coco Rico
06-08-2006, 07:17 PM
Yes, consumers do dictate pricing and currently they have demonstrated that they aren't phased by higher rings at the register when it comes to premium items - which they consider most e-drinks to be.

You're also right, any other country isn't the USA... but then again, Red Bull isn't an American brand and it's mystique and popularity began in Europe and no one thought it would ever translate here, but it did. So I don't think it is completely out of line to look at trends in other countries as a crystal ball of sorts for what the future holds here.

Also, I definitely will concede that Hansen's is growing faster than Red Bull in some markets, but my point was that they're growth wasn't impacting Red Bull as much as it is hemorrhaging volume from other CSDs.

My opinion is that the 16oz consumers are not the same as 8oz consumers and vice versa. Each views their own category differently and until Red Bull launches their own 16oz, they are not on the same playing field as Hansen's or Rockstar.

Regarding the cool factor, you're right with your 16 year old on a baseball team analogy, but the interesting thing about the e-drink category is that while 13-17 year olds are very heavy consumers, their overall population is a very small portion of the consumer landscape for these beverages. The reality is that the largest group of e-drink purchasers are 25-35 year olds, followed by 18-24 year olds, followed by 35-45 year olds (if you can believe that!) then followed up by 13-17 year olds...

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative either. I just have some rather strong opinions based on my 10 years in the biz, and I just love talking about this stuff. I feel the e-drink category is one of the most engaging and dynamic to have come around in a long time. It's also one of the most mysterious and confusing at the same time!

CR

mr jones
06-08-2006, 08:34 PM
Energy drinks ARE considered premium beverages...but I do NOT think you can call them price inelastic. Its not the same as gasoline or milk. They are luxury items...not necessities.

[ 06-08-2006, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: mr jones ]

Mr Zabe
06-08-2006, 08:52 PM
I agree premium beverages are NOT price inelastic.
As the price increases and people have less money to spend, they will seek lower priced alternatives.

Micro Economics 101 is right up there with marketing 101.

DJ HawaiianShirt
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Coco Rico:
The reason why 16oz drinks have been growing at the rate that they are is that Red Bull has no presence yet in that segment. Wow, that's quite a claim.

I do believe that the public is essentially ignorant and will pay high prices for products they see as premium, even non-bev freaks like the busy business man who likes to buy a Red Bull now and then for a kick.

But I don't believe that Red Bull can single-handedly reshape the prices in the 16oz market. I give them credit, but not THAT much. I think people would realize that at that point, there are better tasting products that cost cheaper.

Coco Rico
06-08-2006, 09:44 PM
Wow. Not quite understanding the attacks on my education... Since when does a purely observational opinion deserve a cheap shot like that? I kind of expected more from this forum... I guess not.

I never claimed e-drinks were price inelastic - that of course is an ignorant supposition. I just stated that over the last 8 years Red Bull's higher than normal price has not phased consumers at the register. I'm not inventing this, it's what has been happening in this particular category. Red Bull has always been priced higher than its competition and it has always remained ahead.

HawaiianShirt - I don't really see my statement as overzealous. Red Bull invented the energy drink category in the US, so why is it so outlandish a concept that they might have the ability to shape the price of the 16oz category with their own entrant? Name one other energy drink with the brand awareness and cult status that Red Bull enjoys in this country... you can't.

Look this is all hypothetical I agree, but not without merit - let's give it a year or two and see who is right. I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong.

P.S. Red Bull isn't exactly the type of brand that got to be where they are today by following Marketing 101...

CR

mr jones
06-08-2006, 11:14 PM
CR,
I apologize for the cheap shot, it was out of line. I just saw where our communication got screwed up though. You said Red Bull is being priced higher than the competition -&gt; currently. Where are you located? I'm curious because Red Bull, here, is priced the same as the other 8oz e-drinks. Retailers do not charge more for Red Bull than say an Adrenaline Rush. Perhaps in mom & pops, but not in the big name convenience stores.

I have to agree with DJHS though. Had Red Bull invented the 16oz category (which they should have since they were 1st!! DOH) they could have determined the pricing in the market. They are simply too late to do anything about it. 16oz is already 4 years old...Red Bull missed the party baby.

[ 06-09-2006, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: mr jones ]

Coco Rico
06-08-2006, 11:34 PM
Mr. Jones,

No worries. I should have also clarified my statement further. Red Bull's plan to increase the pricing of 16oz with their own premium priced 16oz (if that is indeed their plan) is ingenius - but only if it works.

While I believe they might be capable of pulling it off, you are correct, 16oz has been around now for quite a while. It could be too late for them to do anything about it. At which point, they'll have to enter the game with a 16oz priced the same as all the others and fight it out that way. Not too unsimilar to what Pepsi forced Coke to do way back when they started selling a 12oz beverage for the same price as Coke's 6oz (a package they were forced to change after some 40 years...)

Or they could just get really aggressive and buy out Monster or Rockstar and control the 16oz category that way. A move they probably should have made already IMO...


CR

DJ HawaiianShirt
06-08-2006, 11:48 PM
I see your points, Coco.

But I have two problems.

One, just because Red Bull essentially started the 8oz market doesn't mean they can come into the 16oz market late and start changing the rules. I think that's overestimating their influence.

Two, I credit their brand recongnizability to the fact that in the beginning, they were really the only energy drink out on the shelves, but also that their marketing campaigns were genius, what with airing quirky commercials, saturating extreme sports events, and forcing themselves into bars and clubs. But the 16oz market has been growing at breakneck speeds, and I find it hard to believe that one would pay over a dollar more for a product whose uniqueness now is basically dependent on its can design.

Coco Rico
06-09-2006, 12:02 AM
DJHS,

Good points. I guess we'll have to wait and see. While I believe Red Bull's incredibly strong brand identity is a tremendous asset, that doesn't automatically equate with maintaining dominance. Evian is a brilliant example of that.

CR

mr jones
06-09-2006, 12:08 AM
CR - you're right, if Red Bull COULD influence the pricing of the 16oz category, it would be a great move. I just don't know if they can pull it off now. They can throw their weight around the category to some extent...but they haven't done JACK on the 16oz playing field. And that category, even in part, DWARFS their sales in the retail world...

mr jones
06-09-2006, 12:21 AM
In a sense, I also think Red Bull as a company was both ignorant and arrogant. Here's why - 16oz energy drinks came on slowly, nobody was sure if they would take off. Than another one or two showed up. Once a few more came, it was like someone accidentally dropped a match in a big pile of gunpowder. BIG BANG!! - a whole new universe was formed and dubbed the 16oz energy drink category. It started spreading like wildfire -- its sales began to leap tall buildings!!

...and Red Bull just sat there, all proud as hell thinking they were untouchable. Now, they're scrambling to get into a category they should have pioneered!

[ 06-09-2006, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: mr jones ]

Coco Rico
06-09-2006, 01:03 AM
True.

But one could also look at it from the standpoint that Red Bull created their entire brand indentity on the premise of an 8.3oz can. Their whole strategy for over 20 years has been that 8.3oz equals 1 dose of energy for the average person (granted that's pretty vague.) So I don't know if it was arrogance on their part or simply a desire not to erode their credibility by bailing on their bread and butter at the first sign of real competition. Red Bull has always had a strong sense of identity and they do not like to compromise their values to accommodate every passing fad.

Again, I will concede that 16oz is growing as a category at a tremendous pace, however, while Red Bull is losing share as the category grows, they are not losing sales. So you can understand why they are hesitant to change their entire business model when it is still generating ridiculous amounts of revenue and profits.

CR

mr jones
06-09-2006, 01:18 AM
I'm not saying they should ditch the 8oz by any means...they're almost the only small can retailers want anymore. They just should have jumped in a bit sooner IMO...now I do think their 16oz will have to come in priced competitively or just slightly above...

DJ HawaiianShirt
06-09-2006, 10:39 AM
I bet that if RB could drop their 8oz price by over 50 cents, they wouldn't even HAVE to get in on the 16oz segment.

SumPoosieCat
06-09-2006, 12:21 PM
You are right about that CoCo the energy market right now is like watching the birth of rap in the early 1980's. So much is happening right now before our eyes.

It is my opinion that Red Bull had only an 8 ounce option for too long and did not understand the USA consumer. Twice as much for the same price? and it taste better too? Not a tough choice. Monster is growing faster because it is a better product. I have a deep appreciation for what Red Bull has done in building the category but I also know this to be true there are now better energy drinks on the market. I challenge anyone to pour my product next Red Bull and ask 10 people which one looks better, smells better, taste better. See if 9 out of 10 choose SumPoosie... I have done it many times and many times I have received all 10 votes.

My point is this... now that the energy drink market is growing and maturing people are looking for something better. I think Monster has demonstrated the public is looking for choices other than Red Bull.

The Red Bull response so far has been to finally offer something other than an 8 ounce can. A 16.9 for nearly 4 bucks? Coco does lightning strike in the spot?

Coco in Columbus Ohio you can buy 3 cans of Red Bull for 5 bucks.

CStoreCatMan
06-09-2006, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Coco Rico:

P.S. Red Bull isn't exactly the type of brand that got to be where they are today by following Marketing 101...
CR Actually, IMO, Red Bull is where they are because they are the PERFECT example of basic Marketing - the 4 P's.

Product - they were the 1st energy drink, thus meeting an unmet consumer need

Placement - by using a small, quick sales force, RB stays nimble and can act quickly. That's why they use vans full of product instead of traditional mass transport. They could literally sell a new account, load them up with 5-15 cases, set a full shelf in the cooler and be on to the next stop in under 30mins....that's pretty good.

Price - they set the price of the 8oz category at $2 based on the new and different beverage they brought to the market years ago...it provided "functionality" which was new to the world of beverages

Promotion - their quirky cartoon commercials..."Red Bull gives you wiiiings" -- this really was an effective advertising campaign.

One could teach a marketing class based on Red Bull's go to market strategy...

BTW - this thread has spawned some great discussions - keep it coming and thanks to all who are contributing!

[ 06-09-2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

CStoreCatMan
06-09-2006, 12:30 PM
TTB - you mention RB selling 3 for $5...but they're still getting topped...

Here in SoCal, you'll find promotions on 16oz Monster, No Fear, Rockstar at 3 for $5...

Some accounts are selling Rockstar at 2 for $3!!

[ 06-09-2006, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

Coco Rico
06-09-2006, 03:54 PM
It's clear that one of Monster and Rockstar strengths have been their price point. They along with the Pepsi brands provide a lot of free product and price discounts to maintain this positioning. So my question is, how do they maintain this and maximize profitability? It seems to me that this propensity to give away the farm in order to gain share on Red Bull is working, but how long will it last or is it part of a long term strategy?

CR

CStoreCatMan
06-09-2006, 04:17 PM
The thing of it is both Coke and Pepsi are having to pay a portion of energy sales to Rockstar/Sobe respectively. Therefore, I think Monster has the real advantage on price and COGS. I've heard of some insanely great deals that Monster is providing to retailers in this market.

Coco Rico
06-11-2006, 08:50 PM
That's my point. Monster is giving away insanely great deals to retailers... so how long can they continue that and remain profitable? Don't get me wrong, it seems to be working for them, but eventually, they will reach a saturation point and they'll have to start looking for ways to maximize profitability for their share-holders. What happens to those deals then?

CR

Red Sox fan
06-11-2006, 11:53 PM
Pepsi isn't having to Sobe a dime..they own it.

Red Sox fan
06-12-2006, 09:24 AM
I meant....

Pepsi doesn't Pay Sobe a dime, they own it.

CStoreCatMan
06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
PepsiCo owns it...not the bottlers...so PBG (who produces, sells and distributes most of PepsiCo's products) would have some % of profits they share with the parent company. Sorry I wasn't more clear in my earlier post.

[ 06-12-2006, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: CStoreCatMan ]

SumPoosieCat
06-13-2006, 10:17 PM
Coco how long can Monster remain profitable??? Did you notice the 4 for 1 stock split???

Coco Rico
06-13-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm speaking in terms of the future. Of course, right now they are doing great. That's not what I'm referring to.

What happens when all those share holders start second guessing Monster's pricing strategy and start demanding tighter price controls in order to increase share holder value? What happens when Monster no longer has the flexibility to spend money on vital marketing programs because it's shareholders are concerned about immediate results and not long term growth?

CR

Ron Swedelson
06-14-2006, 11:29 AM
You know were the prices are going to start changing...the chains. I bet Red Bull will convince the chain buyers to increase the price of their other 16 oz energy drinks. Maybe not to the same level as their 16 oz drink will be, but keep it more competative. They will convince the chains, that since the e-drink market has so much life to it, that they are really selling themselves short by charging so little for these drinks. I have already seen it happen with Albertsons, who raised their 16 oz drinks from 1.99 to 2.25-2.50, and keeping Red Bull at $1.99. That is were I think the first blow will be struck. In the mom and pops, there won't be as much change in price, but I think the Red Bull 16 oz will still have sucess. People buy the Red Bull 4 packs more than any other 4 pack e-drink, and it costs more. They buy the 8 oz can which is same price as the bigger cans. There is just too strong of a following. Now, if Red Bull entered the market 4 years ago with the 16 oz can? Who knows what would have happened. Maybe it would have screwed up their growth with the 8oz can and not have been as successful. Who knew the 16 oz. would have been "THIS" big.

SumPoosieCat
06-14-2006, 04:50 PM
Coco I have been trying to get you to talk about the future for weeks! The future for Monster is easy just keep growing the 16 ounce can market and keep pushing sales by offering great choices for consumers.

What does Red Bull do for the future??? What are they going to do ??? Tell customers to raise the price of others??? What?

Red Sox fan
06-15-2006, 01:28 AM
A. Monster is doing very well right now. I see data on a monthly basis and nationally they have been beating Red Bull in convenience for the past 5-6 months. In some markets they are crushing them.

This brings me no joy to admit but facts are facts (never liked Hansens).

Now, to Coco's point..public companies do face heavy pressure to constantly produce great quaterly results. Sometimes they have to do things in the short term (such as load-ins which hansens is notorious for btw) at the expense of their long term business.

FYI-Hans (the stock) has been on an amazing run. However, down almost $50 a share within the last 3 weeks or so.