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View Full Version : When does it start to get DANGEROUS(CAFFEINE)4 A average healthy person w ActiveLife.



climaxenergydrink
03-12-2007, 08:38 PM
**Does anyone know if there is age & weight class for caffeine intake ?

This definitely need to be addressed, i know there is a program soon to be put in place so that every new ed comes out needs to put on there label (the amount of caffeine per serving) ?

**The amount of work load for these young adults & lets not forget adults ages 15-35 is absolutely ludicrous so what do they do ...turn to the quicker picker upper of 2007 ( " extreme caffeine " ) ed's with 300mg-600mg or 80mg-100mg ! 1-5 a day !! I am overwhelmed by it, how about you ?

Do they realize also the amount of total sugar they are taking in !

My question is WHEN DOES IT START TO GET DANGEROUS (CAFFEINE) for A AVERAGE HEALTHY PERSON with a active lifestyle ?



CLMAX
L

SkipWankman
03-13-2007, 12:29 AM
I think an "average" energy drink consumed daily is dangerous. I used to do it, and every morning my resting heart rate would be mid 80's or even up to 90. All the "energy" affects your sympathetic NS and affects the brain in a way where the heart rate is constantly high. This increased heart rate and pounding is not good constantly and can lead to stretching and weakening of the myocardium. I love energy drinks and I only use them when i need a good pick me up, not every day and for just any ole reason. I'm no doctor, but too much of anything is not good for you.

greg
03-13-2007, 09:49 AM
I think an "average" energy drink consumed daily is dangerous. I used to do it, and every morning my resting heart rate would be mid 80's or even up to 90. All the "energy" affects your sympathetic NS and affects the brain in a way where the heart rate is constantly high. This increased heart rate and pounding is not good constantly and can lead to stretching and weakening of the myocardium. I love energy drinks and I only use them when i need a good pick me up, not every day and for just any ole reason. I'm no doctor, but too much of anything is not good for you.

So I guess since the increase heart beat is bad for the myocardium(muscle tissues of the heart) I should stop exercising.

Daily use of an "average" energy drink will do nothing more than create excess fat storage if calorie input are higher than calorie output.

greg
03-13-2007, 09:50 AM
**
This definitely need to be addressed, i know there is a program soon to be put in place so that every new ed comes out needs to put on there label (the amount of caffeine per serving) ?

**The amount of work load for these young adults & lets not forget adults ages 15-35 is absolutely ludicrous so what do they do ...turn to the quicker picker upper of 2007 ( " extreme caffeine " ) ed's with 300mg-600mg or 80mg-100mg ! 1-5 a day !! I am overwhelmed by it, how about you ?


CLMAX
L

The actual requirement will affect all beverages or foods with non naturally occuring caffeine in them, not just ED's.

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 11:34 AM
greg that sounds good that will affect all !!

But do you know how many milligrams of caffeine.. it takes before it does effect you ..where the body is beyond tolerance ? ie.. THE BODY IS WORKING ON OVERLOAD !!

CLIMAX
L

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 11:47 AM
I think an "average" energy drink consumed daily is dangerous. I used to do it, and every morning my resting heart rate would be mid 80's or even up to 90. All the "energy" affects your sympathetic NS and affects the brain in a way where the heart rate is constantly high. This increased heart rate and pounding is not good constantly and can lead to stretching and weakening of the myocardium. I love energy drinks and I only use them when i need a good pick me up, not every day and for just any ole reason. I'm no doctor, but too much of anything is not good for you.

I do see where you are coming from...BUT JUST LIKE YOU SAID 2 MUCH OF ANYTHING IS NOT GOOD...EVERYTIHNG IN MODERATION !! If we can only read this clearly and be able to follow through ..the world would be in a better place.. unfortunately ... things don't happen that way !! thats where ADDICTIONS...come into play in every facet of life and the ed market is no different !!!

CLIMAX
L

greg
03-13-2007, 11:57 AM
greg that sounds good that will affect all !!

But do you know how many milligrams of caffeine.. it takes before it does effect you ..where the body is beyond tolerance ? ie.. THE BODY IS WORKING ON OVERLOAD !!

CLIMAX
L

That question has too many variables associated with it to provide a straight answer. Everyone is different. I may be able to drink 4 beers and be ok while others may only be able to drink 1 and they will be falling all over the place.
Same goes for medicine. My grandfather, that lived in the out in the country, rarely took any medication for anything. When he had to go into the hospital for some pain problems they gave him straight tylenol and he hallucinated.
Our individual endocrine system, metabolism, weight, frequency of use, etc will have an effect on the ability to tolerate X amount of mgs of caffeine.

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 12:04 PM
That question has too many variables associated with it to provide a straight answer. Everyone is different. I may be able to drink 4 beers and be ok while others may only be able to drink 1 and they will be falling all over the place.
Same goes for medicine. My grandfather, that lived in the out in the country, rarely took any medication for anything. When he had to go into the hospital for some pain problems they gave him straight tylenol and he hallucinated.
Our individual endocrine system, metabolism, weight, frequency of use, etc will have an effect on the ability to tolerate X amount of mgs of caffeine.

i do understand that !! but for a healthy individual with a active lifestyle !! is it 500mg or more or like you stress there are still too many variables far in between !! thanks for the feedback !!

CLIMAX
L

greg
03-13-2007, 12:41 PM
There will always be someone our some organization that will try and answer that question for you, but not me.
Of course I think 1g is too much but that doesn't mean that it can't be handled by others.We all have to figure out our own tolerances for just about everything we ingest.
g

deepnenergy
03-13-2007, 01:30 PM
There are a lot of answers coming out of the wood work about a lot of stuff, IMO, if someone puts stuff in there body that MAKES things happen like boosting you metabolism, or even to much antibiotics. It will cause the natural elements that makes one function to get lazy or just stop producing all together. Most of the time we would call the addiction or dependency and certain people know that but don't want to admit it....:)

I can see it now.......Hi I'm...... and I'm a addict, its been three months since my last RedLine....LOL, I just can't say it....all the love Greg, just messing with you.

cain
03-13-2007, 03:23 PM
the average adult will consume 200mg of caffeine a day- it would appear that over the course of your lifetime- that amount is not dangerous- the medical studies are not conclusive but generally people who overconsume will feel the normal symptoms- such as increased anxiety, heart palpitations and inability to sleep- so the body sort of gives warnings
i always compared caffeine addiction to a car engine- the more you use it, the more you need it to start the engine- the only good advice is moderation and exercise- the more you exercise, the more your body can counter whatever affects caffeine may have

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 03:57 PM
There will always be someone our some organization that will try and answer that question for you, but not me.
Of course I think 1g is too much but that doesn't mean that it can't be handled by others.We all have to figure out our own tolerances for just about everything we ingest.
g


THANKS anyway !! i do appreciate it and 1000mg/1g is alot ... on my behalf !!

L

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 04:00 PM
the average adult will consume 200mg of caffeine a day- it would appear that over the course of your lifetime- that amount is not dangerous- the medical studies are not conclusive but generally people who overconsume will feel the normal symptoms- such as increased anxiety, heart palpitations and inability to sleep- so the body sort of gives warnings
i always compared caffeine addiction to a car engine- the more you use it, the more you need it to start the engine- the only good advice is moderation and exercise- the more you exercise, the more your body can counter whatever affects caffeine may have

Cain that is an interesting concept so to speak... i am wondering ? where is that research from ? 200mg a day ... is that actually for an average healthy & fit individual with an active lifestyle !!

thanks for the info !!

CLIMAX
Lenny

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 04:19 PM
The funny thing about this topic and thread is so many people would like to know this information and it is so now MAINSTREAM because of the birth of the " extreme caffeine " category !!

I thank all of you very much for the info you have provided thus far !! anyone else would like to take a shot at it ... BE MY GUEST !!!

next up ... thread... what is your age & weight & lifestyle & how much caffeine do you consume daily in what products ?

CLIMAX
L

SkipWankman
03-13-2007, 08:23 PM
So I guess since the increase heart beat is bad for the myocardium(muscle tissues of the heart) I should stop exercising.

Daily use of an "average" energy drink will do nothing more than create excess fat storage if calorie input are higher than calorie output.

You don't exercise for over 5 hours a day. Caffeine can have lasting effects past your 1-2 hour workout. The heart is only supposed to pump hard when oxygen is needed to other tissues...*psst* that is why you have an increased heart rate when you workout because muscle and tissues and being depleted of O2. When you work out your heart is doing it for a reason, and eventually with lots of cardio workouts have a lower resting heart rate. That is the total opposite of what energy drinks do....at least for me and quite a few people i know that drink them constantly, have a higher resting heart rate when they started drinking them everyday.

Look i'm not bashing energy drinks, in fact I have one in my fridge chilling right now, but to say drinking them everyday doesn't have harmful effects is just being naive. I have a bachelor's in biology so I know a little bit about the human body and it's functions, not to say anyone else doesn't.

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 08:47 PM
You don't exercise for over 5 hours a day. Caffeine can have lasting effects past your 1-2 hour workout. The heart is only supposed to pump hard when oxygen is needed to other tissues...*psst* that is why you have an increased heart rate when you workout because muscle and tissues and being depleted of O2. When you work out your heart is doing it for a reason, and eventually with lots of cardio workouts have a lower resting heart rate. That is the total opposite of what energy drinks do....at least for me and quite a few people i know that drink them constantly, have a higher resting heart rate when they started drinking them everyday.

Look i'm not bashing energy drinks, in fact I have one in my fridge chilling right now, but to say drinking them everyday doesn't have harmful effects is just being naive. I have a bachelor's in biology so I know a little bit about the human body and it's functions, not to say anyone else doesn't.

.....It's always great to hear from educated young men and woman...thank you !! Not to take anything away FROM OUR GODFATHER OF THE ED CATEGORY....Ofcourse ....(greg) !!! looking forward to reading your response actually !!!

CLIMAX
L

SkipWankman
03-13-2007, 08:56 PM
There was a study showing that caffeine can cause sinus tachycardia in individuals ( I can give you the research article.) and this is from a website Cardiology & Arhythmia consultants "Tachycardia is harmful for two reasons. First, when the heart beats too rapidly, it performs inefficiently (since there is not enough time for the ventricles to fill completely), causing blood flow and blood pressure to diminish. Second, it increases the work of the heart, causing it to require more oxygen while also reducing the blood flow to the cardiac muscle tissue, increasing the risk of ischemia and resultant infarction. "

Now this is with any type of tachycardia (fast HR) including sinus tachycardia. V-tach is more severe and caffeine doesn't cause this to my knowledge, but just know your own limit and try to limit how much you take in. Don't go taking in 750mg a day of caffeine, there are warnings on the label for a reason. On that note, i'm going to crack open my ED right now...lol

SumPoosieCat
03-13-2007, 09:18 PM
How much is too much... the answer is not the same for everyone.

I can tell you this.... drinking too much water is called drowning!

cain
03-13-2007, 09:26 PM
the 200mg per day is based upon study by a researcher at Columbia University- it means average- I'm not sure the average American can actually be defined as "healthy"- i guess the paradox is that an active person can handle more caffeine but is probably less likely to do so because his muscles are metabolizing more naturally

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 09:37 PM
There was a study showing that caffeine can cause sinus tachycardia in individuals ( I can give you the research article.) and this is from a website Cardiology & Arhythmia consultants "Tachycardia is harmful for two reasons. First, when the heart beats too rapidly, it performs inefficiently (since there is not enough time for the ventricles to fill completely), causing blood flow and blood pressure to diminish. Second, it increases the work of the heart, causing it to require more oxygen while also reducing the blood flow to the cardiac muscle tissue, increasing the risk of ischemia and resultant infarction. "

Now this is with any type of tachycardia (fast HR) including sinus tachycardia. V-tach is more severe and caffeine doesn't cause this to my knowledge, but just know your own limit and try to limit how much you take in. Don't go taking in 750mg a day of caffeine, there are warnings on the label for a reason. On that note, i'm going to crack open my ED right now...lol

I DO BELIEVE THAT THE CONDITIONS COULD BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY PERSONS !!! IT ALL DEPENDS....

BY THE WAY ...WHAT ED IS IT ? HOW MUCH CAFFEINE ?

CLIMAX
L

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 09:40 PM
How much is too much... the answer is not the same for everyone.

I can tell you this.... drinking too much water is called drowning!

IN OTHER WORDS... YOU WOULD BE A SOAKED POOSIE .... CAT !!! HAHHAHA !!

L

SkipWankman
03-13-2007, 09:51 PM
I DO BELIEVE THAT THE CONDITIONS COULD BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY PERSONS !!! IT ALL DEPENDS....

BY THE WAY ...WHAT ED IS IT ? HOW MUCH CAFFEINE ?

CLIMAX
L

I agree it is different in every person, that is why you need to know your limit, and even then drinking one every day can be adverse even though you don't feel the effects, and need it just to function in the morning; it's called addiction....and i'm not even going on that subject. Some people just can't handle the effects of caffeine while others don't really feel anything from it. Like you said it is different from person to person. I enjoy drinking EDs and enjoy the benefit of extra alertness, but I don't feel the need to drink one for every task I try to accomplish. There are benefits and adverse effects to caffeine and that goes for most things as well. I think knowing how much is too much is up to the person...

Good discussion, later guys

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 10:19 PM
the 200mg per day is based upon study by a researcher at Columbia University- it means average- I'm not sure the average American can actually be defined as "healthy"- i guess the paradox is that an active person can handle more caffeine but is probably less likely to do so because his muscles are metabolizing more naturally

CAIN i can see where you are coming from !!

Average healthy American... meaning .... someone that has no major death threatening problems or issues, someone that has a consistent work load through the day, someone that works out 3-4 days a week !!

CLIMAX
L

climaxenergydrink
03-13-2007, 11:10 PM
Caffeine Fuels Most Energy Drinks
Researchers Call for Clearer Labeling of Caffeine Content
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
March 15, 2006 - Those self-described energy drinks that have flooded the market are loaded with caffeine and should be required to say so on their labels, a group of researchers from the University of Florida contends.

The researchers analyzed the caffeine content of 10 of the best-selling energy drinks along with 19 types of carbonated soda and seven other best-selling commercial beverages.

Many of the energy drinks contained about twice as much caffeine as the typical caffeinated soda beverage, but caffeine content varied widely from brand to brand, and even within brands.

A 12-ounce serving of Coca-Cola Classic, for example contained 29 milligrams of caffeine, compared with 38 milligrams in a Diet Coke and 39.6 milligrams in Diet Coke with Lime.

PepsiCo's Mountain Dew had the most caffeine of any regular soft drink tested, with 45 milligrams per 12-ounce serving.

An 8-ounce cup of regular coffee typically has 100 to 150 milligrams of caffeine.

Energy Drinks and Caffeine
Energy drinks are wildly popular, and it seems that new ones pop up on convenience store and grocery store shelves each week.

But most consumers aren't aware that the vast majority of these drinks rely on large doses of caffeine to boost energy, University of Florida toxicologist Bruce A. Goldberger, PhD, tells WebMD.

The Internet advertising for SoBe's Adrenalin Rush, for example, boasts that the drink is "pure, concentrated energy in an 8.3 fluid ounce can" and it lists the supplements D-Ribose, L-Carnitine, and Taurine as the "natural energizing elements" that help it work.

The drink also has close to 80 milligrams of caffeine, and while this can be found on the web site, it is not highlighted in the ad.

The ad for SoBe's No Fear energy drink reads: "This 16 ounce energy supplement is by far the toughest can on our shelves. After all, if it were a car you'd be scared to drive it."

No Fear had the most caffeine of any of energy drinks tested by University of Florida researchers, with 141 milligrams per 16-ounce serving. The best-selling Red Bull brand had about 67 milligrams of caffeine per 8-ounce can, while the 8-ounce Red Devil brand had about 42 milligrams.

Of the commercially available coffee drinks tested, Starbucks' Doubleshot had the most caffeine, with 105 milligrams per 6.5-ounce serving, while the coffee company's popular Frappuccino Mocha and Frappuccino Vanilla drinks had 72 milligrams and 74 milligrams of caffeine, respectively.

The caffeine content of energy drinks and commercial coffee beverages is not regulated by the FDA, and the amount of caffeine in most of these beverages tested in the study exceeded the maximum allowance for carbonated cola beverages.

Caffeine and Health
Excessive caffeine has been linked to medical complications ranging from interrupted sleep to headaches to women giving birth to smaller babies. Caffeine has also been linked to increasing heart rate and blood pressure, which poses a potential conflict to those with certain medical problems.

Dietitian Cynthia Sass, RD, says caffeine's effect on the body varies from person to person, and that is another reason why clear labeling is needed.

"Some people can have a really strong cup of coffee and go right to sleep and other people get that jittery, nervous, overstimulated feeling from the same amount of caffeine," she says.

Knowing how much caffeine is in a particular product could help people make better decisions about whether or not to consume it, she says.

She adds that just as with other stimulants, using caffeine to combat fatigue may make you feel better temporarily, but you pay for it later.

"When you are fatigued your body needs sleep and you aren't going to function well until you get it," she says. "Using a stimulant like caffeine is a temporary band-aid to the problem."

Labeling Caffeine Content
While the FDA requires commercial beverage manufacturers to list the presence of caffeine on their labels, it doesn't require them to list how much caffeine a product contains.

That should change, Goldberger says.

"We think these beverages should be clearly labeled with the caffeine content listed just as other nutrients are listed," he says.

Johns Hopkins professor of behavioral biology Roland Griffiths, PhD, agrees. Griffiths has been studying the effect of caffeine on the body for many years, and he says the stimulant is the most widely used mood-altering drug in the world.

Griffiths says energy drink consumers are being misled by advertising for the products.

"The ads give people the idea that they are getting a cocktail of various ingredients fine-tuned to synergistically enhance energy," he says. "As far as I can tell, this is bogus. The effects of these drinks are largely due to the presence of added caffeine, and the magnitude of the effect is completely caffeine-dose dependent."

SOURCES: McCusker, R.R. Journal of Analytical Toxicology, March 2006; vol 30: pp 112-114. Bruce A. Goldberger, PhD, professor of toxicology, University of Florida, Gainesville. Cynthia Sass, RD, spokeswoman, American Dietetic Association. Roland Griffiths, PhD, professor of psychiatry and neuroscience, Johns Hopkins Medicine, Baltimore.
2006 WebMD, Inc. All rights reserved.

-VV-
03-14-2007, 02:06 AM
The amount of caffeine you would need to ingest to die FROM caffeine is on order of 10 grams or more, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 cups of coffee. That is an enormous amount of caffeine and caffeine has a half-life of somewhere around 6 hours so the chances of you dying from the caffeine itself is very remote. I would be very surprised if you could drink enough to kill yourself.

That said, there are far too many variables involved to determine at what point someone will succumb to signs of caffeine toxicity. Things like predisposition to ventricular arrhythmias, undiagnosed heart disease, etc. play a role and aren't easily quantifiable. The number of EDs a person could ingest would depend on too many factors to make a blanket statement about how many it would take for them to be in any danger of adverse effects. The one thing that is certain is, there have been no conclusive studies linking moderate caffeine use (defined as 400mg per day or less) to increased chances of any of the aforementioned health issues. There will always be someone to argue against that point, but the argument won't be grounded in scientific research or evidence. The evidence will generally consist of one of two arguments - the "Well, in my case...", or the "I know a guy..." camps. Google "The Framingham Heart Study" for some interesting reading on the subject as well as some science.

So, is it a good idea to throw caution to the wind an ingest unthinkable amounts of caffeine knowing you will in all likelihood not be able to ingest a fatal amount? Of course not. But most people would probably become extremely uncomfortable and check themselves in to an emergency room long before they actually reach a point where they are in any danger of becoming a very uncommon fatality.

edit: I should mention here that I am not in any way advocating the extreme side of ED development. I think the only people that should be treading such a line should be companies like Greg's who have done exhaustive research and development and market their drinks as sports nutrition drinks. Throwing 600mg of caffeine in a can and saying it will kick someone's *ss is irresponsible and foolish in my personal opinion. Not to mention completely unnecessary. YTou could put a gram of caffeine in a drink, but you are essentially encouraging people to throw out half a can or more every time. Most people can't handle anywhere near that and remain comfortable.

Long post....sorry.....

climaxenergydrink
03-14-2007, 09:37 AM
originally posted by VV:

I should mention here that I am not in any way advocating the extreme side of ED development. I think the only people that should be treading such a line should be companies like Greg's who have done exhaustive research and development and market their drinks as sports nutrition drinks. Throwing 600mg of caffeine in a can and saying it will kick someone's *ss is irresponsible and foolish in my personal opinion. Not to mention completely unnecessary. YTou could put a gram of caffeine in a drink, but you are essentially encouraging people to throw out half a can or more every time. Most people can't handle anywhere near that and remain comfortable.

**I for one hope that the FDA certainly does not allow an ed with more than 500mg per serving even make a brief appearance on the market EVER !!

** I also agree with you in the sense of greg's company (REDLINE) having done the research and affiliated with health professionals that have years of trusted knowledge, whom can therefore promote a product to a perspective consumer.At that point the end user(pc) can feel safe in consuming that product only because of the company that it represents !!

I'll say it once and say it again...even though i must give credit to DEEPNENERGY for bringing forth (EDMA) !!

The ED category should have a screening process to weed out all the other ed's out on the market, and prior to a product coming out where there is a panel of PROVEN WELL ESTABLISHED ED COMPANYS ON THE BOARD, WITH REPS FROM HEALTH (dr's), FLAVOR HOUSES, COPACKERS ETC.. EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS (10) OR SO AND THAT COMPANY MUST ESSENTIALLY PRODUCE A RESUME WITH 3-5 YEARS OF RESEARCH IN THIS INDUSTRY AND GO THROUGH A LONG DRAWN OUT PROCESS TO GET THERE PRODUCT OUT ON THE MARKET !! IT SHOULD NOT ONLY ABOUT THE $$$$$$ !!ie.. A 21 yr old should not be able to produce 100g from his grandfathers inheritance and 6 mos down the road be able to produce a start up ed business !!! BUT THAN AGAIN THIS IS AMERICA THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY.... AND PERSONALLY I AM THE FIRST PERSON TO NEVER KNOCK A HUSTLER TRYING TO BETTER HIM OR HERSELF !!

CLIMAX
L

greg
03-14-2007, 01:17 PM
Climax,
You scared me there for a second. I actually thought you where advocating all those requirements at the end of your post!

climaxenergydrink
03-14-2007, 01:35 PM
Climax,
You scared me there for a second. I actually thought you where advocating all those requirements at the end of your post!

YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT THERE BROTHER !!! HAHAHAHAHA !!

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/Climax222/mini-Redline.jpg

GOOD LUCK WITH THE NEW FLAVORS !! I CAN'T WAIT TO TASTE THEM !!

was that you in the goat t in the pics(I CAN'T MAKE OUT YOUR SHOW-TAG) on the review page of the show..ofcourse under redline...annaheim i believe !! it is great to put the face behind the typing !!! If not ..one of these days !!

CLIMAX
Lenny

climaxenergydrink
03-14-2007, 02:10 PM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/Climax222/lennydjjobpbapres.jpg

NEXT TIME THEY NEED TO GET ME ON MY GOOD SIDE !! HAHAHA !!

greg
03-14-2007, 03:20 PM
Yes that is me. When John(BevNet) came to take the picture I thought he was just taking the pictures of the bottles. Consequently i was talking to him the whole time, hence the open mouth! LOL.

New Flavors are already doing well as far as orders are going.Hopefully that will translate into consumer sales quick. We had a GREAT response at The Arnold Classic.

climaxenergydrink
03-14-2007, 09:47 PM
greg let me know whats the best way to purchase...the new flavors....hook a brother up !! hahahaha !!

**should i call a toll free #, or can i go directly through you !! thanks again there my floridian associate !!! lol

CLIMAX
LENNY