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NEED-ENERGY
08-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Red Bull is as relevant as the 1950's station wagon.
People will soon realize that it is the simplest and cheapest so called
energy drink, and there are better products out there or coming soon.

People who buy RB are ignorant of its contents.

Mr Zabe
08-16-2007, 10:34 PM
Who said consumers of mass market energy drinks have to
be knowledgeable of the contents of the energy drinks they are
consuming?

Lepke
08-16-2007, 10:37 PM
We have all heard that before.

Red bull is a brand. At this point the active ingredient could be urine and it would still sell.

Coke and Pepsi are selling tap water for Christ sake, and it’s some of the best selling water in the country at the same price as soda.

It’s branding not whether or not it works. Red bulls days are not numbered, red bull spends its days counting the numbers of units sold going up and up.

Mr Zabe
08-17-2007, 12:14 AM
Well said and so true!

Popados
08-17-2007, 09:23 AM
IMO, sugar free RB is still the best tasting diet energy on the market.

SumPoosieCat
08-17-2007, 11:01 AM
Lol... didn't you also prefer spinach over ice cream ?

Lepke
08-17-2007, 11:20 AM
Drinking sugar free energy drinks is like wearing a raincoat in the shower.

In Europe you can’t call sugar free red bull an energy drink. If it has no sugar it’s not an energy drink in Europe.

Android
08-17-2007, 12:01 PM
Taking a page out of the history book, I think that Red Bull is kind of in a similar position that Coke was in from the late 1930's through the 1950s. Coke believed their product was the best, their strategy was one product, one size - available as many places as possible. Pepsi and others found the holes in that by offering other sizes and better values ( and for some, better taste) that chipped away at Coke's market share. Finally in the mid 50's Coke saw their share starting to decrease enough that they swallowed their pride and started to offer different sizes. Then the advent of multi-slot vending machines led all soda companies to develop their own lines of alternate flavors, to help keep their bottlers from filling up the other slots on their machines with other companies' flavors. Coke survived, of course, because their was more to their success than just product pricing and size. Their marketing, history, and for many, a good product were huge advantages.

Now Red Bull, they have a bit of history, being "first" - but honestly, the product is not that good. Some people have acquired the taste and will be loyal, but the competitors' superior products, in terms of pricing,size and taste, are certainly impacting and will continue to do so. Red Bull offering different sizes was a first step. Customer loyalty will ensure they won't die - at least, I don't expect it to, just like Coke wasn't going to die either.
-Andy

Coco Rico
08-17-2007, 01:24 PM
While I agree with the analogy between Coke and Red Bull - you do leave out one valuable point. Though Coke's overall share decreased (similar to Red Bull's now) the overall category grew exponentially with competition bringing more consumers to it. My point being - Red Bull's 40% share of the category today is significantly more valuable than the 65% share they had 4 years ago.

CR

NEED-ENERGY
08-17-2007, 01:30 PM
I did not mean that RB will vanish, but that the days of being #1 is coming to an end.
The other day I saw MadCroc at the 99c store, "two for $1".
Madcroc is made in austria with almost the same formula as RB.
RB is profitable because they are selling the cheapest ED at premium prices.

There will be a tipping point when people will realize RB is not worth the $2 price tag, sales will crash land and this will force them to cut the price.
That day will be the tipping point, and its not far off.

Ron Swedelson
08-17-2007, 01:53 PM
Why do you keep saying Red Bull is the cheapest made energy drink? I don't agree with that. I also think it is not just about price, its the whole package. What you are buying, why you are buying it, how it is made, were you can find it. I enjoy the taste of Red Bull, I like Sugar Free Red Bull more though. I also enjoy DareDevil Light. I have tried Monster, Rockstar, Hype, 180, Full Throttle, Hansens, and many others....I'm just not a fan of them. Red Bull and DareDevil work for me. I can find Red Bull anywere I go. I don't care if I am paying $2 for it, its the drink I want. If your thought on price alone was the norm...then Coke and Pepsi would not sell, nor would any premium sodas like Jones, Boylans, Thomas Kemper etc., because only store brand @ .25 cents per can would move. Everyone would be drinking Tekka Voda and not Skyy or Grey Goose. Remember, its the whole package. I can not tell you how many suppliers I have seen come in to the market and sell "We taste better than Red Bull, and we are cheaper. We will be the new #1" As we have found out in the last year, Red Bull is mortal. But who are they being jumped over by? Monster and Rockstar in some markets. Avalibility, package, taste...it's what will do it for the brand.
And while Red Bull is falling from #1, someone earlier made a great reference, their current 45% is worth way more than their 65% 4 years ago. I would gladly start a company tomarrow if I could take 1% of Red Bulls total sales.

deepnenergy
08-17-2007, 06:16 PM
Yes They Are.....

fusion
08-17-2007, 08:44 PM
Yes, even though Red Bull's market share is shrinking, their sales overall are growing.

Where Monster and Rockstar are succeeding is with their distribution networks - they can reach into many locations where Red Bull isn't. Not to mention the sales and merchandising. You may only see a Redbull salesperson/drive once a week or so, but Coke & Cadbury bottlers have people in many stores 5-7 days a week. It is also easy for Coke & Cadbury bottlers to incorporate energy drinks into existing coolers, displays, racks, shelf space, etc, etc. Red Bull distributors have to come in totally green, unless they are an existing distributor that already deals with that account. They can also afford to give better pricing, because the energy drinks are part of their overall portfolio, not their only brand.

It's like Aquafina and Dasani - it's not like they are better waters than Deer Park, Deja Blue, Nestle, whatever... it's the distribution network. You usually can't pass by a Coke or Pepsi machine without seeing a water button on them or a shelf devoted to water or flavored/enhanced water.

Lepke
08-18-2007, 11:48 PM
Taste, quality and even functionality are all subjective. It doesn’t mater if it taste like poison, it doesn’t mater if they use filtered swamp water and it doesn’t matter if it works or not.

I have come to the conclusion that the only thing that does mater is if it sells. Market share doesn’t even matter. It only matters that the product is making money.

Most of these companies don’t give a crap what they are selling as long as it sells and makes them money.

This isn’t wine or micro brewing or bread baking or cheese making, no one is taking pride in hand crafting a product.



And NO YOU CAN’T COOK BARBEQUE WITH ENERGY DRINKS.

Mr Zabe
08-19-2007, 01:09 AM
Taste, quality and even functionality are all subjective. It doesnít mater if it taste like poison, it doesnít mater if they use filtered swamp water and it doesnít matter if it works or not.

I have come to the conclusion that the only thing that does mater is if it sells. Market share doesnít even matter. It only matters that the product is making money.

Most of these companies donít give a crap what they are selling as long as it sells and makes them money.

This isnít wine or micro brewing or bread baking or cheese making, no one is taking pride in hand crafting a product.



And NO YOU CANíT COOK BARBEQUE WITH ENERGY DRINKS.

So can we say mass market makes craftsmanship fall by the way side?

CStoreCatMan
08-23-2007, 03:35 PM
Interesting discussion. My only comment on Red Bull is that I'm rather disappointed in the lack of innovation coming from that camp. In ten years, they have introduced one new size of Red Bull, that's it. Oh, and sugar free of course. Even though they may still be a 45 share nationally, they are in much worse shape in other parts of the country. Here in SoCal, Red Bull is only a 20 share - now tied with Rockstar. Monster is blowing them both away with about a 40 something share...

As for the other areas of discussion, I have to agree with a lot of Lepke's statements. It does not matter what is inside the beverage container, it matters what the container looks like, how its presented to the consumers and how much distribution and marketing is behind it. Why does someone pay over $2 for a Red Bull? Perception. To that consumer, it is worth it.

deepnenergy
08-27-2007, 12:36 AM
Interesting discussion. My only comment on Red Bull is that I'm rather disappointed in the lack of innovation coming from that camp. In ten years, they have introduced one new size of Red Bull, that's it. Oh, and sugar free of course. Even though they may still be a 45 share nationally, they are in much worse shape in other parts of the country. Here in SoCal, Red Bull is only a 20 share - now tied with Rockstar. Monster is blowing them both away with about a 40 something share...

As for the other areas of discussion, I have to agree with a lot of Lepke's statements. It does not matter what is inside the beverage container, it matters what the container looks like, how its presented to the consumers and how much distribution and marketing is behind it. Why does someone pay over $2 for a Red Bull? Perception. To that consumer, it is worth it.

The package, taste, and color should only complement an energy beverage. Anyone with a half of a brain should always care what’s on the inside or what they are dropping 2.50 a can for.... the fact that Red Bull put it in a shinny can with two little bulls on it....NO, little grass hopper. It was the fact that they said "it gives you wings"...WAIT! It sounds like they sold it for what was in the can but tagged it with a very approachable marketing campaign... Good job RB thinks for paving the way!

Perception....right word wrong thought behind it...

Ron Swedelson
08-27-2007, 11:48 AM
That is the problem with new launches with drinks. I have seen countless launches that say "We taste better than Red Bull. We look better than Red Bull. We are better than Red Bull at this. We will be the next #1 energy drink. But 3 months later, the brand is gone. Why is this? Even though Deep and many others feel that it should be based soley on what is in the package...it is not. At least not when it comes to energy drinks. This is a young market (10 years now), and people are still barely educated. If you ask 10 different energy drink buyers what it is in their drink that makes them buy it, it will simply be "This one has the most caffiene, this one just gets me amped up" That is basicaly it. No one is educated that most of the energy drinks have similar amounts of caffiene as one another. Most have very similar effects. But its all in their preception. People are willing to pay more for the energy drink that they believe will give them the best boost and keep them up all day. There is a HUGE reason you dont see the energy drinks moving at .99 cents. People think its a cheap knock off and that it wont perform like Monster or Red Bull.
Monster and Rockstar rolled into the market and got everyone to say "Hey, I can get twice as much for about the same price....I will switch over" It wasnt a close out price, but it gave them a good value for what they were already paying.
Red Bulls market share is slipping, as everyone agrees, they have not done enough to keep their position. They took too long to add a new size, they have not added new flavors, nothing inovative. Their bottom line, I believe is still increadibly good. But they will now have to work 3 times as hard if they want to try and get back to #1 in the market.

deepnenergy
08-27-2007, 07:37 PM
That is the problem with new launches with drinks. I have seen countless launches that say "We taste better than Red Bull. We look better than Red Bull. We are better than Red Bull at this. We will be the next #1 energy drink. But 3 months later, the brand is gone. Why is this? Even though Deep and many others feel that it should be based soley on what is in the package...it is not. At least not when it comes to energy drinks. This is a young market (10 years now), and people are still barely educated. If you ask 10 different energy drink buyers what it is in their drink that makes them buy it, it will simply be "This one has the most caffiene, this one just gets me amped up" That is basicaly it. No one is educated that most of the energy drinks have similar amounts of caffiene as one another. Most have very similar effects. But its all in their preception. People are willing to pay more for the energy drink that they believe will give them the best boost and keep them up all day. There is a HUGE reason you dont see the energy drinks moving at .99 cents. People think its a cheap knock off and that it wont perform like Monster or Red Bull.
Monster and Rockstar rolled into the market and got everyone to say "Hey, I can get twice as much for about the same price....I will switch over" It wasnt a close out price, but it gave them a good value for what they were already paying.
Red Bulls market share is slipping, as everyone agrees, they have not done enough to keep their position. They took too long to add a new size, they have not added new flavors, nothing inovative. Their bottom line, I believe is still increadibly good. But they will now have to work 3 times as hard if they want to try and get back to #1 in the market.

Your words Ron, sir...

"If you ask 10 different energy drink buyers what it is in their drink that makes them buy it, it will simply be "This one has the most caffeine, this one just gets me amped up" That is basically it."

I never said it was solely on what is in it, I said it is the most important. The rest should complement the beverage such as the package, taste, and color. I do agree it is perception but it is how your presentation is laid out and if the public is willing to learn the information is there. Then if they want to buy a cheaper or weaker beverage after learning the truth, then they disserve what they get out of every drop.

One thing is for sure most of those companies that are here today gone tomorrow don't bother to take the time to support the DSD or chain, they just want the sale. I have replaced a number of those, LOL.

Thank you for your feedback, Ron.

Ron Swedelson
08-28-2007, 10:53 AM
So if I am understanding you right...you more have a complaint that the customers are not educated enough to make the "proper" choices. I would have to agree with you. There is very little education for the energy drink market. All most people have to go off of is what they see their big brother and friends drink, what they have had in a bar, or which one they think works best for them. Past that, you have huge events sponsored by these companies, and obviously you are only getting educated on their drink alone. And not always with 100% fact, many claims are stretched to make their drink sound the best. We only use this, and it does that for you...but thoes guys use X brand and that is soooo bad for you.
Now I guess the question is, how can we get the consumer more educated about the brands. Anyone outside of the industry doesnt seem to be too consirned with learning more about what they are purchasing. If someone can figure that out, and get credible distribution then you would have a major player in the market.

deepnenergy
08-28-2007, 09:28 PM
So if I am understanding you right...you more have a complaint that the customers are not educated enough to make the "proper" choices. I would have to agree with you. There is very little education for the energy drink market. All most people have to go off of is what they see their big brother and friends drink, what they have had in a bar, or which one they think works best for them. Past that, you have huge events sponsored by these companies, and obviously you are only getting educated on their drink alone. And not always with 100% fact, many claims are stretched to make their drink sound the best. We only use this, and it does that for you...but thoes guys use X brand and that is soooo bad for you.
Now I guess the question is, how can we get the consumer more educated about the brands. Anyone outside of the industry doesnt seem to be too consirned with learning more about what they are purchasing. If someone can figure that out, and get credible distribution then you would have a major player in the market.


Good word, Energy is for what it is. Everything else that comes with it is just a bonus but let's start a the bottom line "The Energy".

Mr Zabe
08-28-2007, 10:58 PM
Good word, Energy is for what it is. Everything else that comes with it is just a bonus but let's start a the bottom line "The Energy".
Well said.
IMO...you have perfectly summed up the true essence of
what ED's are all about(perception "is" reality). Bravo!!!!

deepnenergy
08-29-2007, 12:57 AM
Thank you Mr Zabe.

Now if I could only get national distribution tomorrow, LOL. That is a all new hat trick even though we offer a Great product, marketing & agreement w/equity it is a hard task to get good DSD on board.

Rockst@r 4ever
09-23-2007, 10:44 AM
uhhh dude, RedBull is the best selling energy drink on the market and makes billions of dollers a year, its not going away anytime soon

NEED-ENERGY
09-23-2007, 12:17 PM
Not gone, but the ".99c" price is just around the corner.


uhhh dude, RedBull is the best selling energy drink on the market and makes billions of dollers a year, its not going away anytime soon

Black Spiderman
09-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Let's keep it real, as long as there is vodka, Red Bull shall reign supreme.

I'm a hard core redline drinker, but I NEEDS RB with my vodka baby.

scum1
09-24-2007, 06:36 PM
Man I was sitting at the local PUB just 2 days ago and you should see all the RB and Vodka being served. Not to mention the shots with RB. Unless someone can break the RB hold on bars then RB is not going anywhere.


Let's keep it real, as long as there is vodka, Red Bull shall reign supreme.

I'm a hard core redline drinker, but I NEEDS RB with my vodka baby.