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greg
12-02-2008, 01:29 PM
Thank you f%*&ing much Citibank. You take $20 billion from taxpayers(me) and then a few weeks later take another $25billion again. You keep intact a $400mm deal with the Mets to "name" their new ballpark after your failing company and then on top of all that you have the audacity to screw me twice.

First- You use my tax dollars to bailout your bad decisons,

Second- You raise my interest rate from 5% to 18% overnight while I have been an exemplary customer never being late on a payment, never going over my credit limit, or never asking for an an extension or credit increase.

You just lost a customer!!! I am paying off my credit card and I will NEVER come back to you again.
Forget the "opt out" clause I found buried in the middle of the 6 page notice you sent me. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops as a valuable customer. Reserve your screwing for the customers and the decison makers that put you in this crisis to begin with, NOT ME!

lordmadone
12-02-2008, 02:37 PM
Been hearing a lot of stories like that especially on financial shows from call in people. Banks care not for their people they care for their bank..as such I use them for that. Credit Unions are the way to go.

popologist
12-02-2008, 03:25 PM
someone get this guy an ice cold...

...soda, pronto! ;)

Mr Zabe
12-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Hold the caffeine. :)
Hang in there Greg.
Times of tough for all of us Soda Pop Freaks.

greg
12-03-2008, 11:19 AM
Hold the caffeine. :)
Hang in there Greg.
Times of tough for all of us Soda Pop Freaks.

I know times are tough, but this isn't just about my interest rate going up...it is about the Amewrican Taxpayer gettiong screwed all the way around. First we "bail" them out, then they stick it to us again. Congress sits up there and spends our money freely by bailing these companies out all the while the executives still get bonuses and multi-million dollar salaries.

Maybe I missed the day in business school where I could run a company into the ground and get to keep my job, my salary, a pretty bonus, my perks, and require my customer to pay me double in the form of increased fees and a government handout funded by my very same customer!!!

meetingpeopleiseasy
12-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Too long didn't read.

greg
12-03-2008, 06:15 PM
Too long didn't read.

..........................part of the problem right here.


( I remember your dry wit and sarcasm, nice touch)

the saint
12-03-2008, 07:10 PM
When you call to close your account,as I did last week for the same reason (apr jumped from 5.99 "fixed" rate to 18.99 due to "market conditions, not to mention the 3 times my account "may have been compromised by online hackers" which I never used the card online, whatever citibank) I was never late, never over limit, same as you. I had to talk to 5 different people, (3 of which I could not understand what they were saying their english was so bad) before I got rude and hateful with them. the last lady I talked to was just so darn cheerful I had a hard time telling her to kiss my ass & I didn't want her check for $20,000 at an extremely low fixed rate of 1.99% for the life of the balance. Needless to say they will keep my account on standby for up to a full year in case I make a rational decision to take their extremely generous offer and come back.

speaking of the bailout did you know that if you take the realistic amount of money handed over to these companies since the onslaught with Freddie and Fannie (close to an estimated $7 trillion) and using something that everyone can relate to ( being most people cannot realistically imagine what having just 1 million would be like) TIME, one dollar being equal to one second. one Million seconds is roughly 12 days ago, one Billion seconds would be sometime back in 1977, one TRILLION seconds would be 26,860 B.C. (yes before Christ was born so 28,868 years ago) and the 7 TRILLION well that would be 219,960 B.C. In other words if one dollar of what has been spent (up until this point) was to begin being paid back every second of every day it would take 222,000 YEARS to pay back just the principal amount. I wonder when the masses are going to realize this is not something that just printing out more money is going to fix.
Has anyone else wondered, now that the government owns large portions of all of these financial institutions and banks, and WHEN the government gives the big 3 automakers their bailout (I am sure it will be in the form of stock in the companies), how long is it going to be before you cannot get a loan for ANY car other that one of the BIG 3???

Mr Zabe
12-03-2008, 07:45 PM
I stopped using credit cards about 10 years ago.
I pay by debit card or cash. If I do not have the money
in my account then I do not buy it. I have to save and plan
on buying what I need.

MATHA531
12-05-2008, 01:40 PM
Do as I do. At the end of the month, pay your bill in full...presto they can raise the interest rate as high as they want...I don't pay interest on my credit cards. I use them the proper way. I pay my bill in full each month. Voila, problem solved.

greg
12-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Do as I do. At the end of the month, pay your bill in full...presto they can raise the interest rate as high as they want...I don't pay interest on my credit cards. I use them the proper way. I pay my bill in full each month. Voila, problem solved.

I wished I lived an altruistic existence but unfortunately I don't.

meetingpeopleiseasy
12-05-2008, 03:31 PM
Do as I do. At the end of the month, pay your bill in full...presto they can raise the interest rate as high as they want...I don't pay interest on my credit cards. I use them the proper way. I pay my bill in full each month. Voila, problem solved.
I do that too, and then I ride to work on a unicorn. Then after work I go have a few drinks with my co-workers on rainbows and fluffy clouds. After that I go home to my magical castle, and my 3 4.0 GPA honor student children and I dine on a dinner of only the finest meats and cheeses. Then I go into my soda pop museum and marvel at my collection of vintage soda cans.

ithastabeshasta
12-05-2008, 07:58 PM
Then I go into my soda pop museum and marvel at my collection of vintage soda cans.

I thought I was the only one!

the saint
12-06-2008, 07:42 AM
Do as I do. At the end of the month, pay your bill in full...presto they can raise the interest rate as high as they want...I don't pay interest on my credit cards. I use them the proper way. I pay my bill in full each month. Voila, problem solved.

Well Mr. Ramsey, or can I just call you Dave? Why do you even use CREDIT cards if you pay them off every month? Why not use your vast amounts of CASH you seem to have, and avoid them altogether?
I know that I just may not be as intelligent as you think you are, BUT I use my cards as I think they were intended to be used. If something breaks etc and I do not have the cash to purchase or fix, such as but not limited to, vehicle repairs such as transmission failure, tires that some kids decided needed decorating with some exotic ornamental knives, windshields, reservations while on vacation, purchasing airline tickets to go to your grandfathers funeral. I usually will have the balance paid off in 2-3 months at most, but that doesn't give Citi the right to rape me on interest charges because of failing market conditions. Our government gave them money so they would not do these things. I am not a credit risk as some or most people are. I do not have a 20,000 limit with 18,000 charged on it, I only use it if I have an emergency that I do not have cash for. It seems to me that by your statement YOU seem to use them quite often.
Then there are always "those" people who pay all of their bills on credit, buy all of their groceries, fuel, McDonalds, etc on credit and at the end of them month pay their card of so they can get their "points" or "miles" so their cheap ass can get a really nice $60 toaster, which by the way works just as good as my $7.99 walmart toaster.

MATHA531
12-06-2008, 10:11 AM
Well Mr. Ramsey, or can I just call you Dave? Why do you even use CREDIT cards if you pay them off every month? Why not use your vast amounts of CASH you seem to have, and avoid them altogether?
I know that I just may not be as intelligent as you think you are, BUT I use my cards as I think they were intended to be used. If something breaks etc and I do not have the cash to purchase or fix, such as but not limited to, vehicle repairs such as transmission failure, tires that some kids decided needed decorating with some exotic ornamental knives, windshields, reservations while on vacation, purchasing airline tickets to go to your grandfathers funeral. I usually will have the balance paid off in 2-3 months at most, but that doesn't give Citi the right to rape me on interest charges because of failing market conditions. Our government gave them money so they would not do these things. I am not a credit risk as some or most people are. I do not have a 20,000 limit with 18,000 charged on it, I only use it if I have an emergency that I do not have cash for. It seems to me that by your statement YOU seem to use them quite often.
Then there are always "those" people who pay all of their bills on credit, buy all of their groceries, fuel, McDonalds, etc on credit and at the end of them month pay their card of so they can get their "points" or "miles" so their cheap ass can get a really nice $60 toaster, which by the way works just as good as my $7.99 walmart toaster.

Well to answer your question, I use my credit cards for everything I purchase from the $1.75 bottle of soda pop I pick up before class to my metrocard to my groceries to my utility bills to my cable tv bill to my airfares for vacations to my hotel charges while on holiday to my restaurant bills both a home and while travelling to my gasoline for my auto to repairs on my auto to admission fees to the cinema or to shows. As a matter of fact, in the course of a week I may not spend one dime of cash. I use credit cards for what they were intended for namely convenience for not having to fumble in my wallet to get up $73.24 to pay a grocery bill (much easier for all concerned including those waiting on the queue behind me to swipe the card). That, at least to me, is the purpose of credit cards...but if you feel differently, you are entitled to that opinion. Find a bank then that doesn't charge what you consider as unfair rates of interest.

the saint
12-07-2008, 07:44 PM
Well to answer your question, I use my credit cards for everything I purchase from the $1.75 bottle of soda pop I pick up before class to my metrocard to my groceries to my utility bills to my cable tv bill to my airfares for vacations to my hotel charges while on holiday to my restaurant bills both a home and while travelling to my gasoline for my auto to repairs on my auto to admission fees to the cinema or to shows. As a matter of fact, in the course of a week I may not spend one dime of cash. I use credit cards for what they were intended for namely convenience for not having to fumble in my wallet to get up $73.24 to pay a grocery bill (much easier for all concerned including those waiting on the queue behind me to swipe the card). That, at least to me, is the purpose of credit cards...but if you feel differently, you are entitled to that opinion. Find a bank then that doesn't charge what you consider as unfair rates of interest.

What exactly do you do when the card system is down? do you have cash in your pocket to pay your bill, or do you have to stand there like an idiot (like my brother in law who refuses to carry cash)?

MATHA531
12-08-2008, 12:30 AM
What exactly do you do when the card system is down? do you have cash in your pocket to pay your bill, or do you have to stand there like an idiot (like my brother in law who refuses to carry cash)?

I don't know...it's never happened to me....one time some imbecilic cashier, I think I was buying groceries and it came out to $2.24, hit the cash button when I offered my credit card and tried to tell me I would have to pay cash.....although I probably had that amount of cash, I insisted that nobody I know carries around that kind of cash and that she would have to correct it...she insisted she could not...I had to have her call over the manager who made some kind of face but then voided the transaction and had it done correctly. I imagine th people behind me in the queue were angry at me but their anger was misplaced. It should have been at the clerk.

I have also had a few run ins with clerks when they try to tell me there is a minimum I must spend before using a credit card. I walk around with a copy of the master card regulations from their web site indicating that it is a violation of their merchant agreement to either require a minimum purchase for use of a credit card (even I have my limits and won't use a credit card for less than $1) or to surcharge a credit card purchase (although apparently cash discounts are allowed, remember when several oil companies pulled this garbage about 15 years ago....I still can't figure out the difference). It is also a violation of consumer law to not put up a sign indicating a minimum purchase. After a verbal dispute, and a threat to report the violation to mastercard, they have relented.

Another hassle I got into recently was at a local Walmart. The cashier insisted I had to show other identification before being allowed to use my mastercard. I also have a notice from mastercard indicating this is also a violation of the merchant's agreement. The manager came over and explained this was for my protection as what if it was a stolen card. I pointed out to him, and people should be aware of this, that identity theft rings operate on the principle of stealing whatever information they can steal. If they simply steal a credit card number, yes they can make fraudulent charges but big deal, a simple call to the bank will and has resolved this (the banks really don't care much about credit card fraud itself. Credit cards are so profitable to them that even with the fraud, they still make lots of money on them)..but it the clerk is in cahoots with some of these vermin who run the identify theft rings, acquisition say of my driver's license number will put me at much greater risk than just stealing the credit card number. It was interesting, after showing the manager the notice from mastercard regarding this, the next day the signs requiring other identification for use of a credit card came down at that Walmart's.

I love those people who invalidate their credit cards who write see ID on the signature panel. The merchant is required to check the signature on the card but in this day and age, most rarely do. Also apparently signatures are not required at fast food places and also at many self service gasoline pumps where you swipe the card (and they ask for verificiation purposes your zip code...that I will give as it is broad enough not to lead to identity theft but that's probably illegal too).

Interesting enough, most of these consumer protections such as the inability to charge a minimum for use of a credit card don't carry over to many foreign places. I know several merchants in the UK claim you cannot use a credit card for less than 5. Also some of the identity theft problems but not all of them, especially on the retail level but not the internet level for example, could be solved if American credit cards would go to the chip and pin system prevalent throughout the eu. However from what I understand, American banks have done studies and found that even with the amount of fraud being perpetrated by the theft of credit card numbers, it would cost them much more to institute a chip and pin system. Also chip and pin does not work, as noted, for purchases online.

That is my little rant about use of credit cards. I use my credit cards for every purchase I make no matter how small and can go weeks either while travelling or at home and not have to spend any cash. I don't think I've made a cash purpose for the last month; yes that's correct. The last time I used cash was the last time I had a haircut which was at the end of October. I'm going to need one this week so I better check my wallet to see if I have enough cast to cover. (and no my name is not John Edwards...I don't take $300 haircuts but I would suppose if I did, they would take plastic!)

greg
12-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Matha 531,
I was buying into your argument,(using my credit card, and good thing because now I can call and dispute the charge), until you made the mistaken statement that Banks do not care about credit card theft...."(the banks really don't care much about credit card fraud itself. Credit cards are so profitable to them that even with the fraud, they still make lots of money on them)."

The banks lose over $2bb to fraud every year(Credit cards only for the sake of this argument). No matter how you cut it that is something to care about!

Furthermore, If you carry around a copy of the credit card aggreement with you day in and day out I think you may be one of those people that "look" for trouble when dealing with consumer issues.

MATHA531
12-08-2008, 12:53 PM
Matha 531,
I was buying into your argument,(using my credit card, and good thing because now I can call and dispute the charge), until you made the mistaken statement that Banks do not care about credit card theft...."(the banks really don't care much about credit card fraud itself. Credit cards are so profitable to them that even with the fraud, they still make lots of money on them)."

The banks lose over $2bb to fraud every year(Credit cards only for the sake of this argument). No matter how you cut it that is something to care about!

Furthermore, If you carry around a copy of the credit card aggreement with you day in and day out I think you may be one of those people that "look" for trouble when dealing with consumer issues.


Understand what I said....of course banks would rather not lose money due to fraud but you have to leverage that against the profit they are making on credit cards with their high interest rates, fees and whatever. The credit card theft, to them, is just part of the cost of doing business. I truly believe if they were in danger of losing money due to credit card fraud, they would be somewhat more vigilant. And I think I gave you the best example. There can be little doubt that going with chip and pin as opposed to signatures (BTW does anybody check signatures much anymore; almost all credit cards I use now are done by swiping through a terminal, I swipe and put the card in my pocket. Rarely and it is very rare, at least in the USA, does any clerk ask to compare signatures) would cut down some of the fraud at the merchant level. Why then, as the USA is so contrary minded on so many things, is there no movement on the part of the American plastic card companies to go with chip and pin? Simple question.

As far as the second part of your comment, it's on a piece of paper in my wallet for the odd time somebody tries not to follow their merchant contract and pull this minimum garbage on me or try to get me to show other id to use my credit card.

greg
12-08-2008, 01:56 PM
Understand what I said....of course banks would rather not lose money due to fraud but you have to leverage that against the profit they are making on credit cards with their high interest rates, fees and whatever. The credit card theft, to them, is just part of the cost of doing business. I truly believe if they were in danger of losing money due to credit card fraud, they would be somewhat more vigilant. And I think I gave you the best example. There can be little doubt that going with chip and pin as opposed to signatures (BTW does anybody check signatures much anymore; almost all credit cards I use now are done by swiping through a terminal, I swipe and put the card in my pocket. Rarely and it is very rare, at least in the USA, does any clerk ask to compare signatures) would cut down some of the fraud at the merchant level. Why then, as the USA is so contrary minded on so many things, is there no movement on the part of the American plastic card companies to go with chip and pin? Simple question.

As far as the second part of your comment, it's on a piece of paper in my wallet for the odd time somebody tries not to follow their merchant contract and pull this minimum garbage on me or try to get me to show other id to use my credit card.


I did understand what you said, I even quoted you on it. Not much there to be left for confusion. Now you change your argument on me, either they care or they don't care(according to your statement).
All companies consider risk when developing a business plan, but to say that they flat out don't care about it is way off base. It is to be expected that unscrupulous individuals will commit fraud, but every banker knows that he does not want to pay anymore than he has to in lost revenue.

What credit card company do you use??? My agreement is 10-12 pages in length. Furthermore, the sections covering fraud, merchant responsibilities, accepted practices are dotted all over the place and can not be found neatly in a "wallet sized" scrap of paper.

MATHA531
12-08-2008, 10:51 PM
I did understand what you said, I even quoted you on it. Not much there to be left for confusion. Now you change your argument on me, either they care or they don't care(according to your statement).
All companies consider risk when developing a business plan, but to say that they flat out don't care about it is way off base. It is to be expected that unscrupulous individuals will commit fraud, but every banker knows that he does not want to pay anymore than he has to in lost revenue.

What credit card company do you use??? My agreement is 10-12 pages in length. Furthermore, the sections covering fraud, merchant responsibilities, accepted practices are dotted all over the place and can not be found neatly in a "wallet sized" scrap of paper.

No sir..I don't carry around the entire merchant's agreement as quoted on the mastercard web page.

Simply the two statements from them (well actually three) regarding

1. No minimum or surcharge is allowed. A very clear definitive statement.

2. Merchants are not allowed to ask for additional identification. If the signatures match, that's good enough.

3. This concerns foreign transactions. Merchants may use the dynamic currency conversion scam but it can only be done with the consent of the customer. Too often, merchants pull this scam and if the customer notices it, gives them one of the following lies:

1. I have no control over the currency converson. It's done automatically by the terminal (wrong the terminal asks the merchant if the customer wishes to be ripped off oops have the currency converted before completing the transaqction.

2. The USD amount shown is just an estimate (wrong you're asked to sign a statement that you accept the conversion as final and will not contest it).

3. We're doing this as a favor to you (wrong....the rate used is invariably more than a bank charges for currency conversion and mastercard/visa and the banks now add a surcharge anyway)

4. It's too late..what's done is done (wrong, any transaction can be voided)

5. It's the law here (wrong)

6. No speak English (wrong then get the manager)

When all else fails when they pull this crap on me, I circle the local currency announce, refuse to sign the statement, write local currency not offered and tell them I will be contesting the charge. When I did that in Venice, suddenly the manager could speak English and started yelling at me. I told him my name is Tucker not Sucker. Funny though, he figured out how to void the transaction and do it properly in local currency while continuing to mutter in Italian...one American he couldn't rip off with this scam.

Dobroplayer
12-15-2008, 02:04 AM
Mr Zabe...


"I stopped using credit cards about 10 years ago.
I pay by debit card or cash. If I do not have the money
in my account then I do not buy it. I have to save and plan
on buying what I need."

BINGO! BINGO! BINGO!!! We have a winner!


Me too. Thats exactly how I live as well. I tore up my credit cards years ago.

Debit card, cash, or personal check.

If I cant afford something, I do without it until I can comfortably pay cash for it.

And that includes cars.

DP