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CaptainCaveUrsine
05-11-2009, 11:51 PM
I think the Democrats would be absolutely stupid to enact this. There are plenty of soda drinkers that could remember this come election time. What's next? A Candy Tax? Whole Milk Tax? Pizza Tax? Anything that Big Brother apparently deems you shouldn't consume.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Senate leaders are considering new federal taxes on soda and other sugary drinks to help pay for an overhaul of the nation's health-care system.

The taxes would pay for only a fraction of the cost to expand health-insurance coverage to all Americans and would face strong opposition from the beverage industry. They also could spark a backlash from consumers who would have to pay several cents more for a soft drink.

Full story at the link

Soda Tax Weighed to Pay for Health Care - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124208505896608647.html)

popologist
05-12-2009, 05:37 PM
I think the Democrats would be absolutely stupid to enact this. There are plenty of soda drinkers that could remember this come election time. What's next? A Candy Tax? Whole Milk Tax? Pizza Tax? Anything that Big Brother apparently deems you shouldn't consume.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Senate leaders are considering new federal taxes on soda and other sugary drinks to help pay for an overhaul of the nation's health-care system.

The taxes would pay for only a fraction of the cost to expand health-insurance coverage to all Americans and would face strong opposition from the beverage industry. They also could spark a backlash from consumers who would have to pay several cents more for a soft drink.

Full story at the link

Soda Tax Weighed to Pay for Health Care - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124208505896608647.html)

oh, this is just the beginning...

remember that pledge not to raise taxes on anyone making over $250k? well, it's now down to $235k... and will probably drop further.

drpep
05-12-2009, 08:30 PM
Already attempted and failed in New York State.

Mr Zabe
05-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Already attempted and failed in New York State.
Same thing for the City of Chicago.

electronicmaji
05-13-2009, 06:07 AM
Actually a bit inaccurate, It's only a tax on HFCS beverages. Diet ones are spared.

A dig at subsidies I think? Although just removing them would be easier, It would probably anger the corn lobby.


As for 235k instead of 250k..it's potatoes. I mean no one on this site makes near enough to start complaining about that, and historically it's still quite a low rate.

SamC
05-13-2009, 07:15 AM
Five states, including mine, have soda taxes. However these have pretty much gone down to insignificance because they are set as an flat excise. Here in WV it was 1c/12 oz when invented in 1954 (and a standard bottle was still 5c, meaning it was a whopping 20% tax) and its still 1c (meaning its about a 0.03% tax).

Without going deep into politics, these types of taxes, combined with hyper-inflation, are all a part of the plan. There are STILL people, however who believe that taxes have been cut, that money has been spent on something called a "stimilus" and/or there are people who do not have "health care".

greg
05-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Actually a bit inaccurate, It's only a tax on HFCS beverages. Diet ones are spared.

A dig at subsidies I think? Although just removing them would be easier, It would probably anger the corn lobby.


As for 235k instead of 250k..it's potatoes. I mean no one on this site makes near enough to start complaining about that, and historically it's still quite a low rate.

It doesn't matter how much money you make. We can all find a reason to state our feelings about the current tax scheme in the US right now.
How about Congress stop spending so much money and then we wouldnt have to have such high tax rates.
This goes for all members of Congress Both Republican and Democrat and the couple of Independents.

popologist
05-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Actually a bit inaccurate, It's only a tax on HFCS beverages. Diet ones are spared.

just another reason to drink Coke Zero. ;)

electronicmaji
05-13-2009, 05:28 PM
It doesn't matter how much money you make. We can all find a reason to state our feelings about the current tax scheme in the US right now.
How about Congress stop spending so much money and then we wouldnt have to have such high tax rates.
This goes for all members of Congress Both Republican and Democrat and the couple of Independents.

Tax rates in the USA are fine. Having lived internationally, our rates are actually pretty low.

Despite this it depends also on the state you live in, and the lower your taxes usually the worse public services are.

DrPepperYummy
05-13-2009, 09:07 PM
How did everyone think Obama was going to pay for universal healthcare without taxing incomes... by taxing products you buy claiming it'll have some specific benefit... its a way around his promise of nobody making under 250K will see their income taxes go up, just every other tax they can come up with... sneaky... sneaky...

weren't gas taxes supposed to improve roadways and increase fuel economy?

weren't cigarette taxes supposed to pay for healthcare and reduce smoking?

To some limited degree those are true, but the vast majority did not do that... they just allowed them to be less efficient in using exsisting money by having more bloated dollars to spend... go government!

So now a soda tax, a fast food tax, and any other consumeable product tax they come up with, won't really change our lives for the better... just allow them to be less efficient at spending money they already have... and blame the other party for the problem... that's politics.

I'm all for taxes and new programs to try and better our lives, but they need to start eliminating the programs that show they don't work, or aren't giving us a good return on the money... don't just keep throwing more money on a problem, if your solution isn't solving it, re-adjust your approach to the problem, not throw more money at the same failing way.

I need a Cherry DrPepper now.

electronicmaji
05-13-2009, 10:53 PM
How did everyone think Obama was going to pay for universal healthcare without taxing incomes... by taxing products you buy claiming it'll have some specific benefit... its a way around his promise of nobody making under 250K will see their income taxes go up, just every other tax they can come up with... sneaky... sneaky...

weren't gas taxes supposed to improve roadways and increase fuel economy?

weren't cigarette taxes supposed to pay for healthcare and reduce smoking?

To some limited degree those are true, but the vast majority did not do that... they just allowed them to be less efficient in using exsisting money by having more bloated dollars to spend... go government!

So now a soda tax, a fast food tax, and any other consumeable product tax they come up with, won't really change our lives for the better... just allow them to be less efficient at spending money they already have... and blame the other party for the problem... that's politics.

I'm all for taxes and new programs to try and better our lives, but they need to start eliminating the programs that show they don't work, or aren't giving us a good return on the money... don't just keep throwing more money on a problem, if your solution isn't solving it, re-adjust your approach to the problem, not throw more money at the same failing way.

I need a Cherry DrPepper now.

But none of those taxes have anything to do with Obama?

Taxing things that are bad for you is never a bad idea.

Now I'd be against taxing soda if it had sugar in it, but since HFCS is killing so many americans (including me) I don't mind it.

CitrusCola
05-14-2009, 06:09 AM
So-called "sin taxes" are self-defeating. They are simply used as step toward increasing other taxes.

Let's take this proposed tax on non-diet soft drinks as an example. If this tax were enacted, then the price of non-diet drinks would go up. People would change their behavior by either buying fewer drinks or by buying untaxed diet drinks. As sales of HFCS/sugar-sweetened drinks drop, the amount of tax money collected will drop as well. Politicians will then declare that the tax needs to be extended to diet soft drinks (those artificial sweetners aren't good for people, are they?). Once diet drinks are taxed, people will buy fewer of them as well. Perhaps they'll just drink mostly water. Again, collected tax money will go down. Politicians will then see a need to increase taxes and fees on drinking water (you know, we do have the drought brought on by global warming and all). Eventually, people are put in a position where they can't avoid the higher taxes, and the government slowly forces them into yielding more of their earned money. Do taxpayers honestly believe that "sin taxes" are going to pay for universal health coverage?

On the plus side, if taxes drive soft drink prices up enough, a black market will develop. Folks will start making homemade drinks and selling them. Who knows what sorts of new flavors will be developed....

popologist
05-14-2009, 08:11 AM
soda (like just about everything else in life) is only bad for you if you consume too much of it. personally, i don't like the gov't telling me what i can and cannot do (via taxes)... so long as i'm not hurting anyone else.

just say "No" to the nanny state! lol

greg
05-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Tax rates in the USA are fine. Having lived internationally, our rates are actually pretty low.

Despite this it depends also on the state you live in, and the lower your taxes usually the worse public services are.

I beg to differ. Why should I turn over 30-40% of my labor to the Federal Government every pay period?
The US Consititution allows for the certain protections of the US citiizens which I have no problem pay taxes for, however, I have a huge problem paying for Aquatic centers in NJ, Peanut Museums In Ga, hocky rinks in MN, etc,etc out of Federal Money. If the people of those great states want those things let the private sector pay for it. If the private sector wont pay for it then the need must not be that great.
Don't even get me started on the billions upon billions of dollars we pay top foreign countries that have an open disdain for us!

Furthermore, Just because "other" countries have higher tax rates and ours a are just a bit lower does not make it right!

greg
05-14-2009, 10:56 AM
But none of those taxes have anything to do with Obama?

Taxing things that are bad for you is never a bad idea.

Now I'd be against taxing soda if it had sugar in it, but since HFCS is killing so many americans (including me) I don't mind it.


Who gets to decide what is bad for you? I can drink soda in modweration and keep my weight, BP, insulin levels in check. I can also drink alcohol in moderation and be fine.
Last time I checked we had some freedoms left to make our own decisions. Sounds like you have no problem letting someone else live your life for you.
HFCS isn't killig Americans, There sedentary lifestyle is killig them.

Mr Zabe
05-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Well said,Greg.

popologist
05-14-2009, 01:45 PM
wow! this is turning into a soda rebellion. lol

unfortunately, it's a lot harder to send soda cans to congress than tea bags... ;)

Dumas Walker
05-14-2009, 04:12 PM
Seeing as how the folks who drink diet drinks that I know seem to be even more likely to be diabetic and have kidney stones, I don't really see how they can basically legislate that they are somehow healthier than the non-diet varieties.

Best as I can tell, many of the folks who drink diet around here use that as an excuse to get their sugar via other means. "I just drank a diet Buzz, so I can have a whole chocolate cake."

DrPepperYummy
05-14-2009, 04:47 PM
But none of those taxes have anything to do with Obama?

Taxing things that are bad for you is never a bad idea.

Now I'd be against taxing soda if it had sugar in it, but since HFCS is killing so many americans (including me) I don't mind it.

Soda isn't "bad" for you... HFCS isn't "bad" for you... taxes aren't "bad" for you... but over-consuming any of them IS bad for you... moderation and self-control is something america hasn't yet learned... so we pass more laws to try and control people from themselves...

in europe... they have 8oz energy drinks, and smaller ones... they don't buy 16oz and up energy drinks which is just about the minimum size in america... why... because americans haven't learned moderation and self-control... so we need a government to tell us how to live... if we can't figure out guzzling 32oz of energy drinks a day is bad, no law taxing it more is going to fix us...

creating laws to hopefully limit consumption of something because we haven't learned how to control ourselves, is the wrong approach... because soon we won't have anything left without a special tax trying to teach us moderation... perhaps we should learn moderation and control instead of setting up new agencies that cost us money to save ourselves.

Every new type of product taxed, creates a new agency, a new department in an agency, a new committee to over-see those agencies and departments, new office spaces, new national rules and regulations, new employee's in companies paid to understand and comply with those new regulations, all sorts of excess waste...

instead of us just learning, hey this is bad if I over consume it... maybe I'll just enjoy this one soda, instead of two or three with my meal, several times a day... or maybe its a treat once a week on the saturday bbq... I mean look at water bottle taxes coming down now... because people just haven't learned to re-use a bottle and drink from the tap... sometimes its often the same source in those store brand waters...

P.S. Sugar is bad for you too if consumed in unhealthy levels... they make sugar cane soda in many areas and people are still fat and unhealthy off that... so where's the logic in "HFCS bad - sugar good". (sugar in cakes, sugar in muffins, sugar in coffee, sugar in everything won't make a difference if its HFCS or not... its how much you're consuming)

This has me so agitated I am going to drink a Cherry DrPepper then go run in the park... then have another soda to cool down after...

popologist
05-14-2009, 08:23 PM
This has me so agitated I am going to drink a Cherry DrPepper then go run in the park... then have another soda to cool down after...

lol!!! that was a great rant, man. :D

electronicmaji
05-16-2009, 03:14 AM
I beg to differ. Why should I turn over 30-40% of my labor to the Federal Government every pay period?
The US Consititution allows for the certain protections of the US citiizens which I have no problem pay taxes for, however, I have a huge problem paying for Aquatic centers in NJ, Peanut Museums In Ga, hocky rinks in MN, etc,etc out of Federal Money. If the people of those great states want those things let the private sector pay for it. If the private sector wont pay for it then the need must not be that great.
Don't even get me started on the billions upon billions of dollars we pay top foreign countries that have an open disdain for us!

Furthermore, Just because "other" countries have higher tax rates and ours a are just a bit lower does not make it right!

Protip: Every single state gets back a good amount of what they pay in federal taxes for local projects.

Taxes and Death are two certain things in life. You shouldn't really complain about either of them.

Of course I do agree that we shouldn't be taxing low and middle income people 40%. That's a kind of tax that should be on the rich folks.

Eitherway's it all goes towards good projects. And you can't have a world without taxes or governments. Trust me it's been tried. Somalia is NOT a very nice place to live.

electronicmaji
05-16-2009, 03:16 AM
Soda isn't "bad" for you... HFCS isn't "bad" for you... taxes aren't "bad" for you... but over-consuming any of them IS bad for you... moderation and self-control is something america hasn't yet learned... so we pass more laws to try and control people from themselves...

in europe... they have 8oz energy drinks, and smaller ones... they don't buy 16oz and up energy drinks which is just about the minimum size in america... why... because americans haven't learned moderation and self-control... so we need a government to tell us how to live... if we can't figure out guzzling 32oz of energy drinks a day is bad, no law taxing it more is going to fix us...

creating laws to hopefully limit consumption of something because we haven't learned how to control ourselves, is the wrong approach... because soon we won't have anything left without a special tax trying to teach us moderation... perhaps we should learn moderation and control instead of setting up new agencies that cost us money to save ourselves.

Every new type of product taxed, creates a new agency, a new department in an agency, a new committee to over-see those agencies and departments, new office spaces, new national rules and regulations, new employee's in companies paid to understand and comply with those new regulations, all sorts of excess waste...

instead of us just learning, hey this is bad if I over consume it... maybe I'll just enjoy this one soda, instead of two or three with my meal, several times a day... or maybe its a treat once a week on the saturday bbq... I mean look at water bottle taxes coming down now... because people just haven't learned to re-use a bottle and drink from the tap... sometimes its often the same source in those store brand waters...

P.S. Sugar is bad for you too if consumed in unhealthy levels... they make sugar cane soda in many areas and people are still fat and unhealthy off that... so where's the logic in "HFCS bad - sugar good". (sugar in cakes, sugar in muffins, sugar in coffee, sugar in everything won't make a difference if its HFCS or not... its how much you're consuming)

This has me so agitated I am going to drink a Cherry DrPepper then go run in the park... then have another soda to cool down after...

Then these new Soda taxes shouldn't be bad for you unless you consume unhealthy amounts of soda.

We're talking 1 or 2 cents on the 1 dollar soda here guys. It's hardly going to kill you wallte wise.

As for HFCS. Half the amount of HFCS as compared to Cane Sugar is Twice as bad for you, if that makes any sense.

While HFCS in moderation isn't extremely bad for you, HFCS in moderation would be a quarter of what Cane Sugar is in moderation.

popologist
05-16-2009, 11:12 AM
Either way's it all goes towards good projects. And you can't have a world without taxes or governments. Trust me it's been tried. Somalia is NOT a very nice place to live.

i disagree that it all goes to "good projects". generally, the higher our taxes, the greater amount of waste.

furthermore, low taxes are hardly somalia's problem.

whether it's a nickel or a dime... if the gov't taxes me as a form of "behavior control"... i don't like it. personally, i don't consider politicians as role models... and i don't like them telling me how to think or act. :)

greg
05-18-2009, 11:48 AM
Protip: Every single state gets back a good amount of what they pay in federal taxes for local projects.

Taxes and Death are two certain things in life. You shouldn't really complain about either of them.

Of course I do agree that we shouldn't be taxing low and middle income people 40%. That's a kind of tax that should be on the rich folks.

Eitherway's it all goes towards good projects. And you can't have a world without taxes or governments. Trust me it's been tried. Somalia is NOT a very nice place to live.


Protip rebuttal: States dont pay taxes! Citizens, read PEOPLE, pay taxes!!! That money comes form me and you.

Yes, Taxes and Death are "certain" things in life, howver, I dont want to have to accept either one. If I find out I'm dieing then I'm gonna do every thing in my power to hold it off as long as possible. Same things with taxes. I don't want to pay anymore than I have to.

Show me the incentive someone has to succeed when they know that when they get there they will have to pay more taxes because they arein a hgher tax bracket? Furthermore, why should you be penalized for being more successful than others. If you are more successfulit rarely, and I mean rarely has anything to do with luck. hard work , risk, and sacrifice goes into being successful.

You need taxes, thats for sure, but not at a rate that strangles growth or stifles achievement.

popologist
05-18-2009, 01:45 PM
personally, i sort of like the idea of a "consumption tax" (i think it's also called "the fair tax").

the way i understand it, under the fair tax system, there would be no income tax or payroll tax. there would only be a sales tax on things we buy. this way, we're not taxed over and over on the same money... and we all pay the same percent.

a few necessities, like food, would be exempt.

i'm really attracted to this idea and would like to hear more about it... and if a presidential candidate in 2012 (from either party) supported it, i would seriously consider voting for him or her.

DrPepperYummy
05-18-2009, 02:04 PM
personally, i sort of like the idea of a "consumption tax" (i think it's also called "the fair tax").

the way i understand it, under the fair tax system, there would be no income tax or payroll tax. there would only be a sales tax on things we buy. this way, we're not taxed over and over on the same money... and we all pay the same percent.

a few necessities, like food, would be exempt.

i'm really attracted to this idea and would like to hear more about it... and if a presidential candidate in 2012 (from either party) supported it, i would seriously consider voting for him or her.

I was all for the consumption tax until it was explained a little more to me... basing our entire income off sales taxes of products sold in america... would mean every business that doesn't purchase products (foreign owned companies who sell not buy), wouldn't chip in to our economy at all and would create a larger drain on our economy quicker than it already is shipped over-seas...

we'd have a larger net lose compared to the current system and would be required to generate more income from higher taxes per person overall versus the current system as screwy as it is... go figure... it sounded great and the right way to do it, but they need some way to tax those foreign companies who don't pay any taxes for employee's and would suckup more profits to ship out of america...

so a flat sales tax is great, but we need a way to stop foreign companies from sucking more profits out without contributing anything then... if companies were americna owned it would be fantastic way to keep money in america and make those with it pay the taxes... but being a global economy now lots of companies aren't owned by americans anymore... and foreign companies had a buying spreee of american companies during this recession, look at how much china bought up of america... (tech and pharmaceutical companies, they spent bazillions buying them up)

lordmadone
05-18-2009, 04:34 PM
Everything we have is taxed...EVERYTHING..some directly and a lot more indirectly. These taxes that are indirect get passed onto the consumer. I am tired of all this over taxing of hard earned money only to have it taxed more. Stuff like this gets under my skin. I get 25-30% of my money taken out and given to the fed and state government every week and then tax on my gas to drive to work and tax on my food or drink I consume as well as tax on my clothes I buy..taxes on my phone and dvds and EVERYTHING! I swear its friggin insanity when you sit back and think about it and if its not bad enough..be a homeowner..you get taxed on your bills and in some places there is random "management" fees from your city..ughhh...and dont get me started on toll roads..nothing is free anymore..there is just an illusion of free because we are not paying it up front. Our government is so damn bloated with our money and mismanaged it for so long they barely know what they are doing..thats why I vote republican more often..small govt..bush tricked the crap out of me..*sigh* ..*breathes*..ok I'm done now.

Mana211
05-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Tax HFCS all you want. Just don't tax cane sugar.