I think death is highly unlikely. Those kids only had a sip each. It was all in their heads(they probably read all that negative news). People od on alcohol on a regular basis and last time I checked you could buy it most everywhere. There might be some regulation of energy drinks in the future but I don't see them going anywhere. I also hope some parents get a clue soon. I have kids and one is 14. I have probably 50 energy drinks in my fridge and she never gets to drink any asides from maybe a few sips of a monster I might be drinking. She also does not have unlimited cash to go around buying energy drinks everyday. If you don't pay attention to your kids then you have much more to fear than energy drinks.

Originally Posted by bigbottom

Greg for a man that has so much to say, it seem you spend very little time in the field selling. Yes, we launched an energy drink, from start to finish, it took 6 months, trademark formula to production of the first 1600 cases, we only spent 25k and it is on an alternative market, online, vending and private label. Only 120 mg of caffeine for a 12 oz package. The fact is this Greg if you are not Red bull, Monster, Coke, Pepsi or Cadbury which are throwing Hugh dollars to conquer and divide the shelf you are just another sucker company paying to play in the up and down the street convenience and grocery trade. Any one can give it away the real deal is getting a store to pay for it!!!! I am not trying to be a domes day speculator, but the facts are obvious, to me that is on the street everyday talking the talk and walking the walk, not glued to the board speculating on the trends. The information I deliver here is direct from the retailers, direct from the distributors I sub with and work with. Yes the margins are great, but the exposure to taking on a pallet of energy that will sit and cost 3000.00 and then going into an account that tells you it does not sell, and if you don't take it back, swap it out or relive them of the lost financial burden will not buy your items that do sell.

Do yourself a favor and get Google news on energy drinks, you will see first hand across the country and across the board there is a rumbling to the negative effects of this categories excessiveness in becoming the next great thing. Time will show you that what I say is factual, and it is not merely my words it is the words and print I have reiterated to this board from the news wires and hundreds of papers that are spewing the negative news.

I think I saw you have something to do with redline, they are scared for their proverbial lives, they are ready and willing to throw minuscule money at a school were three kids took ill if and when one drops dead it's over and it will only be a matter of time, cause speed kills, to much of a good thing is just that too much. 25k is that what a child's life is worth? you tell me Greg is it?

Nice rebuttal, however, I must take exception to the fact that it is accurate.

First off, I am past the point of being in the street selling my drink. With that being said I applaud the frontline guys that do. That is where I got my start.

2nd, With only 120mgs of caffeine I hope you really made your drink different than all the rest. What type of innovation did you put into it? What have you offered the customer that they are willing to "try" your drink over their regular choice? What type of price point do you have? Have you successfully hit your targeted demographics? Did you use the right message to get the attention of your target audience?

3rd- You have already set yourself up for failure if you have the notion you can't be successful going up against the big guys. Sure they have tons of cash for marketing, but you have the ability to make quick decisions and act on them without having to form a committee to set an appointment to have a meeting about what to change in your ingredient profile or marketing approach.

4th- YES, You were being a doomsday speculator. Like I said, perhaps you need to take a new approach. Sure ED sales are not 75%, 50% over last year. There has to be a leveling out sometime, however, sales growth is still in the doublke digits......Please tell me when soda last experienced double digit growth.

5th-Are you telling me that a $3k pallet to a distributor is out of line? Surely a distributor has at least 98-140( depenind on pallet size qauntity and weight) accounts he can sell one case to.

6th- I have read several stories about energy drink abuse and not being used as directed. You can bring up that lame a$$ excuse about kids drinking it, however, Redline specifically calls for noone under the age of 18 to use its products as well as only drinking half a can to assess tolerance. Are you telling me that every kid out there obeys the rules? I will sit here and tell you when I was 15 I could get beer, liqour, weed, just about anything I wanted. The news stories are sensationalized for you so that you will buy their newspaper or watch their program. Of course I understand the sensitive nature of too much caffeine in the hands of children, look around this board and you will see where I over and over talk about the issue of kids and energy drinks.


Lastly- You are correct, you did read where I had somehting to do with Redline, however, the relationship is over. Yet, this does not mean that I do not agree with Mr. Owoc's and his decision to make a donation to the Broward county School district after 3 kids fell ill after drinkng a redline.( Thier story is suspect to begin with, 3 kids taking a sip or two of a redline would garner them each less caffeine than what is in a Pepsi!) Mr. Owoc and Redline have always taken the high road and let all its consumers know of the potency of the product as well as its recommeded age restrictions.

Your last question is redundant and therefore I will not even address it. It is assinine.

well i recently discovered ED's I like them in the morning instead of coffee now.
I have become a monster regular (and yet trying other flavors). While a friend of mine in the past 6 months picked up red bull and swapped over to full throttle (he likes the blue one). While yet another has been telling me to try NOS. I like my energy drinks and prefer them to coffee now. I drink one a day. I dont see them going anywhere.

I think there's plenty of room for growth. The problem is that everyone's trying to mimic the "big guys". Its going to take more than a cool name with a catchy design to compete in the market "unless its a value brand". Our company is seeing rapid growth with our new drink but it doesn't come without expense. Everthing about our drink is differant than anything else on the market "Custom bottles, holographic shrink labels, unique flavoring, and one of a kind formulation. Some people think it's like the good old days when products would sell just because its on the shelf and theres only a couple options. If you don't come thru with something differant you might as well approach Biglots and the Dollartree with your product right out of the gate.

I just read same thing again. Biased opinions... blah blah... STILL no facts to back up claims (if the info is as rampant as you claim, you can't provide even one reputable link?)... blah blah blah... incredibly lame closing sentence.

By the way, in regards to your closing sentence about energy drinks being the new future corporate child killer, I think this quote from energyfiend.com defends it the best,
(Taken from this EF article, Boy Hospitalized After Red Bull Overdose)

"It’s odd how caffeine makes the headlines - but we never see this: 'Boy gets intoxicated after beer overdose'. Despite the fact that happens every single day (or hour). And despite the fact that 1,400 college students lose their lives each year due to alcohol-related injuries"
And this one DOES have a source: Journal of Studies on Alcohol

From todays BevNet front page......Looks like Big Bottom has been proven wrong yet again.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:12:00 PM
Energy drink sales continued to surge while CSD sales continued to flounder in the four weeks ending April 19.

ACNielsen data reported by Bank of America’s Bryan Spillane showed energy drinks up by 15 percent in convenience stores, with Monster growing 35.2 percent and Red Bull up 15.7 percent.

It is my contention that an anaylst from bank of America may know a thing or two about what he is doing.
Furthermore, Isn't there some other guy out there that thinks that the C-store is a bad place for Energy drinks and that there are far more better places to grow your brand?

Originally Posted by iPwnd

honestly, i think the boom is just really starting. sure alot of startups have gone out of business, but look at monster. almost anyone you know has tried it or heard of it. it is truly becoming an alternative to coffee. I saw on some business magazine just a month ago about investing in the ed market. More and more money is going in, and the succesful companies are reaping the benefits. sure alot of products in this category fail, but truly is growing.

well said, i too, think the energy drink "boom" is just starting. it only gets bigger from here, the industry is spreading more and more every month. Last week in a resaurant in greenvill, sc i was reading the alchohol drink menu, on of the drinks ( i forgot what it was called ) had Rockstar in it. And im sure that coffee is just as "unhealthy" if not more so, than energy drinks.

HMMMMMM?????? I can understand the poisition that you are taking with this catagory. A lot of different drinks have come and gone in the past eight years. The large total of these have c ome in the past four years. To play in this game you have to come with enough poker chips to get in, and then not bet it all on your first hand. So many have done just that and have failed or given up because they have not seen any growth over night. With the way the world is today, 24/7 energy drinks are a must to keep going, and with the continual growth it has it will not be going any where for a long time.

Originally Posted by greg

From todays BevNet front page......Looks like Big Bottom has been proven wrong yet again.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:12:00 PM
Energy drink sales continued to surge while CSD sales continued to flounder in the four weeks ending April 19.

ACNielsen data reported by Bank of America’s Bryan Spillane showed energy drinks up by 15 percent in convenience stores, with Monster growing 35.2 percent and Red Bull up 15.7 percent.

It is my contention that an anaylst from bank of America may know a thing or two about what he is doing.
Furthermore, Isn't there some other guy out there that thinks that the C-store is a bad place for Energy drinks and that there are far more better places to grow your brand?

Greg, It's been a while since we have corresponded, I am sorry to hear you have ended your relationship with Redline. In response to this post, do you agree that the growth in the energy drink category will be in innovation, not only in new drinks but from the market leaders(case in point Monster Java) I don't think brand Monster, is growing at 35% but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by NRGSLLR@

Greg, It's been a while since we have corresponded, I am sorry to hear you have ended your relationship with Redline. In response to this post, do you agree that the growth in the energy drink category will be in innovation, not only in new drinks but from the market leaders(case in point Monster Java) I don't think brand Monster, is growing at 35% but I could be wrong.

It has been a while. I hope all is well.

I believe that although the ED category as a whole is still young it is maturig at a rapid pace. The frontrunner, RB was the king for quite a while( Keep in mind it was only introduced in the States in 1997), however, now there is Monster and Rockstar nipping at their heels. The success of Monster and Rockstar, IMO, came markedly on the "pepsi" platform, that is doube the volume for the same price. The difference was not marketed as a better drink or better ingredients but rather just plain old MORE product for the same price. Don't get me wrong, I understand the marketing, grass roots efforts, and market approach may have been somewhat different, however, the "product" resembled the market leader.
Many products have tried and failed at this approach. As someone said earlier, it comes down to how much money you have and how long can you afford to play the game in a crowded market.
Now, as I see it, Innovation will be the next marker for a money maker in the ED business. Notice I didn't say Sales leader. Just as Coke and Pepsi have endured all these years they were at the forefront of CSD's and were able to outlive their competitors due to brand recognition , awareness, and loyalty.
Same with RB and Monster for sure.
Innovation hits at the niche market and creates a sub-category if you will. Those included in my opinion are drinks such as Redline, Engage, Spike, 5 Hr Energy, and others like them. These companies have taken an idea and created something better and more aligned with certain demographics withing the ED category.
Redline hits athletes(read crossover) that want more than a lift and a lot of sugar. They created the SUPER Energy drink with Zero sugar.
Engage- Builds on the REDLINE idea but adds the element of Mood enhancers to create a better overall feeling of well being while providing great energy without the Jitters.
5HR uses the concept of a neat and tidy package that can be handled effeciently( read: put in purse or pocket) that attracts truckers for its B vitamin energy and low "pee" factor. Less liquid, less frequent urination. It also does a remarkable job of marketing to the average adult user that may need something to combat the cubicle crash.
Albeit, none of them are bringing in the volume like Monster and RB they are all doing well respectively and have loyal followings. They have created something different and are providing the market with choices other than the status quo. Companies that provide innovation will be rewarded by brand loyalty.

At this point, although the category is young, I do not see anyone coming close to knocking down #1 or #2 for years to come, if they do it will be a Pepsi or Coke product with more than just a marketing approach of "just getting in the category". It will take an honest approach through innovation to bring a superior product to market in a cost effecient manner that can be embraced by a great range of demographics. Not another "me too" product.


Side note-This reply written while drinking an 8.4 oz Spike Shooter-'Quila Lime flavor. D-LICIOUS