Elevator Talk: Five Brands Shaping CPG’s Next Wave

Ray Latif [00:05] Hey, folks, I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Bevnet's Taste Radio podcast, and you're tuning to the latest episode of Elevator Talk, the series that profiles early-stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. Today's episode will focus on 5 food brands whose entrepreneurs will have an opportunity to hear feedback and advice from our co-host for this episode, that's Can Koyunju, who is the co-founder of Chapter Foods. Can, it's so great to see you. Hi, Ray, how's it going? It's going fantastic, even better now that I'm seeing your face, because the last time I saw you was in June for the Summer Fancy Fucci show in New York City. Uh, and what a fantastic event that was. I'm so glad we had an opportunity to walk the show floor a bit together and see so many amazing brands and products, some of which will be featured on today's show. Yeah, I think, uh, it's a circle moment for me because I've been the number of fan of this show, as you know, and finally being here as a co-host is a really, like a Uh, one of the best days of my life if you ask me. Well, thank you so much for saying that and thanks so much for being a big supporter of what we do and for the food and beverage community as a whole. Um, tell us a bit about your background and work with Chapter Foods. Yeah, totally. I've been in the CPG business for the last 6 years. I had my own sauce business in Turkey and then I left the business in the 3rd year. And now what with the Chapter Food is that in the last 3 years is that we are a manufacturing and sourcing company working as an agent, so we are mostly focused on confectionary categories. So we have, we have manufacturing partners in Turkey and Europe for big scale candy production as well as smaller players, manufacturing partners in the US for domestic. And some other ones, and We have two different categories when we work with it. So we have finished products which are like candies, like gummies, clean label candies, toffees, anything you can ask for. We help CPG brands and retailers and candy retailers to source candies. On the ingredients side. Our biggest category is natural colors because of the change of regulations and retailer pressure and consumer pressure. That's why we have some big scale manufacturers all vertically interrogated for natural colors as well as smaller players. To help us to help, uh, startup brands too. Uh, since we launched, we launch, we have like 100+ brands, uh, for sourcing or manufacturing, uh, projects, and one of the latest, um, product launches we ever made is actually the Pepper Tx uh pistachio chalked wafers. Well, that certainly seems on trend, especially with all the excitement and enthusiasm around pistachios over the last couple of years, and I wonder from your perspective, having worked with, developed, and formulated so many new products for brands, what other ingredients, what other trends are really on the horizon for food and beverage companies? I think one would be on the sweeter side. Uh, yeah, we sell a lot of like zero sugar candy trends that we've seen in the last few years, but recently we had a lot of startup brands actually to source like date syrups, apple pure. Apple syrup for even for gummies and we have a really exciting product coming up. For example, it's like a clear date juice based product. You wouldn't tell the date because it doesn't have any other flavor to dates, but it's date based. So I think also like it aligns with our brand friends today that for example Casi. Uh, we're gonna see much, much more like whole foods sweeteners like dates, maple, and apple. Ken, not only are you helping brands formulate new products, you're also a great observer of this industry. You're very active on LinkedIn and Instagram. Certainly when it comes to new and innovative brands coming to market. What really gets you excited most about what you're seeing in food and beverage? What new concepts are really resonating with you? So I think the whole Whole Foods movement is exciting for me and on the general side, I think it's really great to see like reviews like Target Sprouts to coming up with really great programs for dispatch for you products to finally have a chance to get to meet and consume really fast. So actually the that will change the whole grocery industry if you ask me because Now you don't even need to wait for like a few years uh for your product to get on a really big retailer and see results if it's, if, if that's what consumer wants. Before that, in the last few years, the gameplay was all about like getting into social, get a little bit of traction, but as long as you are now fit into these big trends, retailers will give you a hand. And you might have a chance to be a really big brand in just in a few years. Yeah, I think that's a good point. You know, the opportunity for small brands to get into large retailers was pretty limited many years ago. Nowadays there are many programs, including the Sprouts innovation set. You know, Target has opened up the doors to smaller brands, even Walmart to a certain extent, and I think you're 100% right that because everyday Americans are asking for better for you products, these retailers are having to deliver. So great news for brands and I think great news for our founders who are joining us for this episode of Elevator Talk. I am thrilled, thrilled for this group and to meet this group. Ken, are you ready to meet this group? Obviously. Fantastic. All right, let's start with our first founders. They are Brittany Lim and Sashi Kumar, the co-founders of Tamarind Heads. Brittany, Sashi, it's great to see you. Likewise, Ray, Ken, great to meet you. So excited to be here and be a part of this show. Thank you, Brittany. How are you? I'm doing great. We're so excited to be here. Great to see you, Ken. Great to see you, Ray. Thank you so much, tamarind Heads. You know, originally when I heard this brand name, I could have sworn it was a candy company, but that's not what you do. So tamarind Heads, not a candy company. It is a barbecue sauce that is made exclusively out of the equator's secret superfood, which is tamarind. I've got my little tamarind pod here that I realized we're on a podcast, if you want to look it up, it is a fruit that grows along the equator, high in antioxidants, anti-inflammatory, and magnesium. And it's also a global staple that's eaten by 3 billion people every single day in 5 global regions around the world. And so that makes it a really versatile flavor. So it's used in everything from aguas frescas to, you've probably had it in pad Thai or Worcestershire sauce, um, so candy, you might have even had it in candy. Uh, we put it, it's a true like culinary chameleon, so it flavor wise goes a bit tart, tangy, complex, um, sweet and savory. And so our question was, how do you take this global ingredient that belongs everywhere from Mexico to the Caribbean to West Africa to South Asia, but has not been unlocked here in the United States, because most tamarind is sold as a paste or a concentrate. And so we just put it in the most all-American format you could think of, uh, which was barbecue. And so that's what we've done, um, and, and the traction has been amazing. I'll let my partner in crime and partner in life, Sasha, talk a little bit about that. That's exactly right. So we, Tamarind Heads Barbecue is an entirely tamarind-based barbecue sauce line with just 5 other clean ingredients. So it's better for you and it wins on flavor because the year that we launched in the summer of 2024, we took home the Specialty Food Association's Sophie Gold Award as the best barbecue sauce on the market, the Oscars of the Food world on a blind Taste Test, and which allowed us to get into our first retailer out of the market, which was Central Market down in Texas. So we went right into barbecue country and ourselves and did really well there, which got us on the radar of the fresh market. And so we're now at about 200 doors up and down the East Coast and a bunch more stores in the in the upper New York area. And this year, the momentum just continues. At the 2026 Summer Fancy Food show, just just a couple of months ago that Ken and Ray, you guys were at, we took home the Editor's Choice and Best in Show from the Kitchen magazine. So there's a lot of momentum behind us, and Brittany is going to tell us a little bit more about our most important thing to come. Yeah, so I think one of the most exciting things that happened recently was Southern Living magazine got a hold of our sauce somehow, and named us their 2026 barbecue sauce of summer, which, for us, having a brand that has a global ingredient, getting the nod from a publication that's so, I would say like traditional American, I think speaks to how we see tamarind heads, which is that It is the new American pantry staple, because of the fact that it doesn't belong to one culture, it belongs to many. And, you know, what's more American than that? And oftentimes I hear people talking about global cultures coming to America, global cuisines coming to America, but I counter that by saying, I don't think anybody is, I mean, there's people who are coming here, certainly, but I prefer to think about it as global flavors are growing up in America because I'm American, you know, I grew up here. The flavors I know like tamarind come from abroad but are shaped by the other flavors that I've grown up with from my neighbors, right? And so in that way, I think tamarind heads is the next pantry stable because it captures that shift, you know, for people like me and Sashi who grew up with it, it is this familiar flavor that we're excited to see in a new format. And then for people who are less familiar with tamarind, it is a really familiar format with a new flavor that they're really excited to see. And that that's Chairman Heads, I think, in a in a nutshell, and yeah, we're excited to get out there. That's Tamarind Hens in a pod, and I love it. And it's uh you guys did a great job. Thank you so much for that introduction. Um, just a quick question, you know, I was just having a conversation with someone about ketchup, and they couldn't believe that the second ingredient in ketchup was corn syrup or sugar. Um, and I'm curious about the sugar count, calorie count for your products. Yeah, look, we're tamarind, entirely tamarind based. That's our first ingredient in the whole lineup, and we've spent over 5 years trying to figure out how do we make this product in the best, cleanest way possible, and that's what you have is an ingredient in a bottle that's made entirely of tamarind, no corn syrup, no tomatoes. Vinegar and just 5 other clean ingredients you can read. We actually, in, in, in some of the, some of the trade shows we go to, we actually blow up our ingredient lists, right, because people don't believe that that's all that's in it. And it's to answer your question directly, it's 30 calories for a serving and about 5 g of organic brown sugar. Amazing. That is fantastic. And Ken, I feel like that's kind of your sweet spot, no pun intended, uh, and what you were talking about earlier with whole food ingredients at a sugar and calorie count that modern Americans are looking for. I have a question on the supply chain side. So you said you spent like 4 years on the R&D actually, and this is like a whole 100% tamarind based product, uh, which you swapped tomatoes and vinegar, um, is. Just using tamarind is enough to have like enough pH so it can be stored in ambient storage for 2 years. actually, again, that's a great question. Absolutely. One of the amazing superfood properties of tamarind is that it's a natural preservative. Which if you use the product and the ingredient in the right way and you manufacture it the right way, you get to harness all of it, including all of the superfood anti-inflammatory properties as well, but it is a natural preservative. We actually are not just an acidified food, we are a natural acid food. So because of the way that we process and manufactured here on site in the US. I wonder about your packaging. I think your packaging is great in that you are really embracing tamarind as a word, even though there are probably many people who are not familiar with with the ingredient. But what is really resonating most with your retail buyers and your consumers? Is it tamarind? Is it barbecue sauce? Is it something else on your packaging that gives them confidence that it's going to be a great tasting product, that it is going to fit well into their pantries or shelves? Yeah, it's a, that's a great question and a timely one because we just went through a whole rebrand and that was very much informed by our consumers. Um, I think to take your first part, how do we decide to lean into the imagery that we have right now? You'll see that there's our little, we call them our little monsters or our little spirits on the bottle, and we really leaned into the sort of global. Fun cultural aspect of tamarind. So tamarind, like I said, grows in 5 global cultures, global cuisines, and one interesting fact we found about it was everywhere tamarind grows around the world, there's usually a folk tale associated with the tamarind tree, one of them being like mischievous spirits live in the tamarind tree, and if you walk under it, it'll jump on your shoulder. And so we decided to embrace that kind of Playful aspect of it and put it on our, our sauce because barbecue at the end of the day, it's fun. And so I think that's the first thing we heard from our customers was we want the packaging to look like the fun that is inside the bottle and the imagination. There is something imaginative about using tamarind instead of tomato for a barbecue sauce too. And so our new packaging is also very imaginative. And then finally, we wanted to signal that You know, just like what's inside the bottle, which is all real ingredients, no preservatives, you know, everything is very craft. Um, we didn't want to go with just AI or a kind of common designer for our packaging. So the front of the label was done by a Colombian graphic design company and the sides were done by an Indian illustrator. So both pulling from people and cultures who are actually from those tamarind regions. And so our audience. have really embraced that. They helped to inform it. We heard from them. We want it brighter because like the flavor is so bold, it needs to be bolder. And so that's what we did and that after our next fancy food, we'll have some exciting announcements coming this year about two new big banner retailers who would like to take us in part based on the fact that they really liked our packaging, of course, the flavor inside. Amazing, amazing. I want to get back to Ken for a sec because I'm sure he has a couple more comments. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So, like, by the way, we have tamarind's sherbet drink in Turkey. We've been drinking for so many years now. Uh, so based on that, actually I was going to ask like how do you actually communicate this is like a barbecue sauce or maybe how do you How did you decide we should turn this into a barbecue sauce? Because when I, because I'm coming from hot hot sauce, uh, business before, um, seeing more like a hot sauce category type of packaging that I've never seen before in barbecue sauce. So that's why I want to ask that how did you ended up making this a barbecue sauce instead of like a hot sauce or any other sauce like I think first, the barbecue sauce use case is so strong. Uh, tamarind caramelizes instead of burns on the grill. Tomatoes-based sauces burn, so great for barbecue, great for high heat, and the viscosity of it lends itself to barbecue. Um, but I think also, many competition winning barbecue sauces use a little bit of tamarind in it as their little drop of gold to win. And so there's a history of it there. And finally, it's a clear use case to start with for a lot of people. You get them that bottle and they know immediately what to do with the barbecue sauce versus the hot sauce can be, there's a lot of different use cases, but we want to give somebody a clear use case since tamarind might be a little bit more foreign as an ingredient. Yeah, that's la. Thank you. Well, I got to say, because we have, um, I think we have the old packaging or I'm looking at your website and it has the old packaging, but on your Instagram account, it has the new packaging, and my goodness, it is a fantastic rebrand. You guys did a really good job. The logo looks fantastic. The, the hierarchy in terms of the label design is just spot on and It feels like consumers want to discover it as much as they want to buy it, you know, there's there's like a really cool discovery ability, if that's a word, of, of your brand. And people want to know more about what tamarind is. So really great job. I can't believe we're out of time. I mean our feeling we went into is like we want people to feel like they're Indiana Jones a little bit, like I need something cool. Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's, it is really, it has that exotic but very familiar kind of aspect to it. I love that you can see the ingredients. You see that it's actually Whole Foods, as Ken was pointing out, inside the bottle. It's not. Um, it's not a paste. It's, it's a, it's a sauce. It's a barbecue sauce. So yeah, yeah, like I said, I can't believe we're out of time. Uh, Sashi, Brittany, thank you so much for being with us on Elevator Talk today. Obviously you're off to a great start. It seems like there's a really good runway for success for this brand. Please stay in touch. Let us know if we can help in any way. If there's any news, I know there is news coming out about what you're doing. Reach out, let us know. We want to promote it. We want to talk about it on Nosh and Taste Radio. That'd be amazing. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, Ray. Thank you, Ken. Bye. All right, great start to the show. I know we're gonna keep things going in that direction with our next guests, Russell and Julia, the co-founders of Cozy. Russell and Julia Meez, that is. How are you guys? How are you guys? Doing great. Thank you so much. We're so excited to be on today's elevator Talk. Yes, thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, wow, Cozy is a brand that I've, I've wanted to talk about for a long time. We did talk about that in a recent episode of Taste Radio. You guys make some phenomenal products, um, and it comes from, from a very personal place. Tell us all about Cozy. Yeah, yeah, so we are the founders of Cozy Foods. Cozy Foods is an ultra clean snack brand. Today we sell the Cozy Butter Bar, which is a refrigerated snack bar made with 8 ingredients only, and we are the only bar on the market made with grass-fed butter, and our product was actually born from the hardest season of our lives. 3 years ago, I was actually battling stage 4 cancer. And during that time we decided to switch our diets completely to whole foods only, and Julia started making everything from scratch in the kitchen, including the bars that we sell today. And long story short, once I hit remission, we knew we had to share it with the community, and that's how the brand was born, and today we are in over 60 doors growing really fast and just really excited to You know, continue sharing that sense of real food comfort these bars gave us during that time. Yeah, and in recent news we just won the Startup CPG Shelfie Award for the non-UPF category, which is such an honor because our products are minimally processed, so we only use 8 ingredients. We have no preservatives or additives. We actually use the refrigerator as our preservative. And we have two amazing flavors. We have warm cinnamon and salted matcha, and they're just honestly the best clean everyday snack that is super, super yummy. Like, literally, once you taste this, you'll just get it and you're automatically hooked. I can attest that is correct. I tried these bars. They're, they're not the consistency that you might expect for a bar. Most bars and even great and really delicious bars have a, I would guess, a chewier consistency. Yours almost have a meltability that you just don't expect, and I'm assuming it all comes from the grass-fed butter. Yes, yeah, the grass-fed butter really gives it that like creamy cookie dough-like texture. Yeah. And Russell, thank you so much for sharing your story. Uh, congratulations on, uh, you know, beating stage 4 cancer. As far as I know, that's not Uh, something that often happens. Um, so I know, I know you're, it seems like you're close, but, uh, congratulations on beating it and getting to where you are now with Cozy. Uh, Ken, I wish, I don't know, have you had a chance to try this by any chance? Uh, not really, but I missed it at the show. I'm so sorry for that, Russell and Julia, but the next time I'm in the US in, in like next week, next month, I'll try that, um. Yeah, by the way, I really liked the name Cozy. I don't know how did you end up like trademarking it because it's a really great name, really kudos on that, but I have a question on the name actually, because like you're selling on the refrigerated section. But your name is Cozy, so it's a cold chain product that gives warmth a little bit, and your name's also like, so just like warm cinnamon and like salted matcha. How do you, did, did you have any like feedback on this, this is like a little bit cognitive dizziness? I think the feedback has been actually really great with the, the flavors. What we're really trying to, uh, you know, reel you in on is the way these bars make you feel. So we're really selling that emotion and trying to offer, you know, consumers that real food comfort, so to speak, and I feel like cozy and the flavor names really embody that. And it was pretty, pretty awesome because we rebranded to Cozy literally 2 months ago now, almost 2 months, and we started off as RJ Naturals at first, Russell and Julia, just to, you know, see if these bars are actually something that people would buy and love and You know, after a year of testing out the market and proving that cozy just made sense. Yeah, cozy is just like the name that really embodies everything that our products make you feel. You feel really warm and cozy when you eat the bars because they just taste so amazing. It's very comforting. It's very safe. And so this word really reels people in on shelf too, and like with our logo being very bold and very eye catching from far away as well, it almost creates like that sense of curiosity where the customer's like, oh what is this? What is this cozy bar in the fridge? Let me pick it up and see what it is. And once they read the label, they see the clean ingredients and they're just like, OK, I'm down to try it. Yeah, uh, just to quickly follow up on Ken's question, do you, do you have a trademark for Cozy? It looks like you do on your, on your website. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's actually in the process right now. Yes, outstanding. Your packaging is great too. Um, just a couple of quick questions on that front. You described the cozy as a snack bar, um, even though, you know, you could go a number of different ways with the description. Why a snack bar? Mm, yeah, we wanted to, you know, stray away. We're not a protein bar. We want to make that very clear. We're not a protein bar, although we do have 4 g of protein. We do have 5 g of fiber as well. That's another big call out on our front packaging. But our bar is really meant for everyday use. You can eat it in the morning with your coffee. You can eat it in the midday for a midday pick me up, little snack. Also a guilt-free dessert. And so the snack bar really just embodies all of the use cases that you can just eat this. A snack in between meals or literally any time of the day and it really differentiates ourselves on shelf because everyone is a protein bar or a fiber bar or or whatever they may be pushing, but our bar really is an everyday snack bar. Can, one of the things I loved most about cozy was that you had this great duality of flavor. You have this sweet and you have a little bit of salty. I assume part of that, part of that is intentional. Maybe part of it's from the grass-fed butter. I don't know if you're using salted or unsalted butter, but it's a really, um, Just fantastic flavor. How often are, do, do you feel like you're seeing more sort of dual flavor concepts coming to market where you have salty, sweet, I know spicy is a big thing nowadays. Yeah, I mean, we didn't intentionally, uh, Make it sweet and salty at the same time. It was just the bars that Julia created, you know, during the time I was going through treatment. Uh, we actually use Celtic sea salt that gives it that nice, uh, saltiness to it, and the reason we use Celtic sea salt is because we really believe in the minerals that it gives you and all of these extra benefits than traditional processed salt. So yeah, that's where the that saltiness comes from, that salty kick. And being sweetened with dates, I imagine, is something that's very exciting for candy here. I think, you know, as you talked about it at the top of the show, people are looking for alternatives to processed sugar, and dates is certainly one way to go. Do you feel like that's that, you know, pointing that out on the front of PAC is going to resonate with consumers, modern consumers today? Yeah, I definitely believe so. I mean, I feel like in a world filled with processed sugar and just, you know, Natural flavors. I feel like with a callout like sweetened with dates, it tells you that this product is potentially naturally sweetened and has no You know, additives or preservatives, possibly, yeah, and we are out there on the field doing farmers' markets and pop-ups and when we do mention that it is naturally sweetened dates, it's just an automatic. The customers are just like, oh wow, OK, I am like in because they're looking for, you know, products that have no refined sugars and that are clean and naturally sweetened and so that call out was really important for us too. I'm not a sourcing expert. Luckily we have one on the show. I was coming on to that actually. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, you must have some questions about certainly the availability of things like grass-fed butter. Yeah, right now I'm seeing a lot of like price hikes when it comes to like white protein now collagen, now a little bit of butter actually we had a really big supply chain crisis with organic milk last year. That's why for example some of our customers switched to a2 milk because it was easier and cheaper to find it and As you scale up to a coal manufacturer right now, how do you think it's going to affect you? Do you have any like long term um connections with the suppliers and also, can you also a little bit, tell us a little bit about like how to work with the coal manufacturer when it comes to really clean ingredients because it's also slap bar. Yeah, so we're really grateful to have really great suppliers. Our uh our grass-fed butter actually comes from New Zealand, so we have a really great relationship with our Uh, butter Source and our comb manufacturer that we are actually transitioning to, their practices and their, uh, quality, you know, requirements are very intensive, where we really adore and love about that, and, uh, yeah, they only make natural products like ours, so. Uh, working with them and teaming up with them was an automatic, you know, yes for us, and, uh, it's been a long process, uh, you know, onboarding with a co-manufacturer can take like up to a year or more. Uh, we've been like. 7 months at it and we're like almost there, so we're really excited for the next chapter. Outstanding. Russell, Julia, I am thrilled for you guys because it's not every day that you come across a brand like yours and products like yours, and I think they're going to be a big hit with consumers. The more you get the brand out there, the more you get into people's hands. They're going to become believers of what you're doing and You know, certainly everything that you've gone through and gotten to at this point is really remarkable. Uh, congratulations on everything that you've built and please let us know if we can help in any way. Uh, introductions to folks in the industry, in whatever capacity you need. Um, we want to help in any way we can. Definitely, thank you guys so much, Ray and Can. Really appreciate you guys having us today. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for being with us on Elevator Talk. Thank you so much. All right, from one bar brand that I am in love with to another bar brand that I am in love with, uh, our founder, our next founder is Srivanti Balaji, who is the founder of Samsara Nutrition. Hey, Ray and Kim, thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Tell us all about what makes Samsara different. Thank you so much. So, Samsara Nutrition is an Indian inspired protein bar brand and what we're looking to do is shake up the protein bar aisle with some really different flavors that haven't been seen before on the shelf. Um, I started this brand when I was postpartum with my twins, and I had so many protein bars just for nourishment. But what I found was, one, they weren't actually nourishing me. Two, I didn't like the texture of most of them. And third, which is the most important thing, all of them kind of have the same flavor profile. Peanut butter, chocolate chip, cookie dough, and none of it felt like a bar or flavors rather that I really wanted to eat. And so I used to bake in a past life and so I just took out a mixing bowl and started making protein bars myself. And the things that are in my cabinet might look a little different than what's in a traditional pantry. So we have Indian spices and mango, and all of those flavors are what inspired our 1st 3 flavors to market golden mango, spice chai, and masala peanut. Each of our bars have 15 g of protein, 7 g of fiber. No added sugar with all natural sweeteners, and we've seen some really great traction since we launched in April. We are mostly B2C but also have a growing independent retail presence. This is mostly concentrated in the Bay Area where I'm based, and generally we are here to show that joyful eating and nutritional eating can go hand in hand, that you don't have to sacrifice joy for eating well. Outstanding, my goodness. Well, you didn't have to go much further than masala, peanut, golden mango, and spice chai. They just, just those flavor names will take you a long way. Uh, and I should note, being from the Bay Area or being based in the Bay Area, uh, coming up soon is our Taste Radio San Francisco meetup, which is happening on September 17th. If you are based in the area or visiting, definitely check us out. Head to tasteradio.com/meetups to RSVP. Uh, Can, I gotta start with you because, uh, I've been taking up so much time on this show and I'm sure you have a lot of questions about Samsara. I really like the packaging. I think it stands out in the protein aisle, protein bar aisle, but I have a question on the position. Like, you say the bars are inspired South Asian flavors. I really like the flavors, by the way, but the mission is about like metabolic health in a population that's like underserved, as you stated. Like when you write an ad or like communicate your product, which one comes first? Yeah, so right now I would say that our flavors are what come first. I think that's what gets people to try the bar more than being about metabolic health or having more protein in your diet. I think every bar that's a protein bar tends to lead with protein first, and I think our positioning is that that leaves us with a lot of room to lead with flavor in the category. And I think the reason why people eat any food, protein bars or not, is for the taste. People come back for the taste and the flavor, and what we're trying to show is that protein bars are not the exception to that, and that's what should bring you to eating something consistently. That's really why we lead with taste. I think that in the positioning, I definitely talk a lot about metabolic health and underserved population with in terms of flavor needs in the nutrition aisle. Those things are certainly important, but none of it matters if you don't like the taste of the bar. That's true. So Avanti, where do you see Samsara fitting in best? What, what retail channel? Is there a particular retail chain that you think this brand can um really have an impact? It's a great question. So our initial customer base, I thought was going to be mostly South Asian. I'm, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how well our bars have been doing in independent retail stores with a mostly white population, to be like, uh, like to be perfectly honest, and I think it really speaks to the fact that one, people want bars with lower amounts of sugar with them. I think that people who are sugar sensitive are really like are really quite. Drawn to these bars and then the second thing is that I think everyone wants different flavors. And so while I initially thought this was going to be more of a specialty retail product, which is where it currently sits, I do think there is strong mass market potential for it, especially considering that the protein bar aisle has felt kind of stale in terms of flavor innovation. Um, so to answer your question, I think we could do really well in like a Sprouts, uh, maybe one day like a Target, but I would say more in the Sprouts, um, the Sprouts type of retailer. Yeah, uh, just a quick follow up on that. Uh, your packaging is vertical themed. Um, a lot of protein bars, it's sort of horizontal. You see it on a shelf, it's in a box, and you know, you're looking at it. And the logo from a horizontal perspective. Why was vertical your your choice in terms of how the brand looks? Yeah, I think vertical for us was just due to the shape of the bar. It's a relatively smaller bar, and so what that means is that if I were to do the packaging horizontally, it was just hard for us to communicate what we wanted to communicate about the packaging horizontally. With that said, I think even though the packaging itself is vertical, there is room for the outer packaging. Case to still be horizontal on shelf right now our independent retailers are loving that we're vertically faced because it's easier to place those on their shelf, but I don't think that's sustainable for us long term. And so I am considering it in the back of my head of what it would mean to keep the vertical packaging versus switching to something horizontal. Can, what stands out to you, um, about Samsara? You know, for me, it's very much the flavors, but, you know, for, uh, I know you, you're someone who enjoys working out and I'm sure has consumed a lot of protein bars. Um, do you, do you like think about the protein count as much as you do the flavors? I think the, the best approach in this product, uh, if you ask Mr. Ivan is the balance of the product because it has some like 7 g of fiber and then 10+ grams of protein, which Actually, if you ask me a little bit like a white space, and it was um because we've seen a lot of protein maxing last year and now it's going to be much more balanced, but there's also supply chain side for that. I think you're on a good point because I've seen a lot of price hikes we just mentioned before, and I see a lot of protein bar brands that are leading the categories in all over the world like in Turkey, in Europe, in US markets, they Mixed, they started to mix other sorts of proteins in their products, and do you have any plans on that, for example, if it's going to like, you have, you, you are using uh milk protein crunch for the texture, and then you also have like white protein, milk casin. Do you have plans to switch it to a little bit plant? A protein as well. I'm so glad you asked. It's actually one of the number one questions we get about our brand is, will there be a vegan option? And the reason why we didn't go vegan from the beginning is purely taste-based. Whenever I had pea protein, I couldn't stand the earthiness of it, and I think a lot of people don't like it. And ultimately, again, it comes back to taste. If people are not going to enjoy the taste, they're not going to come back to consume the product. Um, and so we started off with whey protein, but with that said, I think there's actually some really interesting innovation in the plant protein space and so I have my eyes on a A couple of other plant-based protein sources that could be great. And again, like you said, whey protein prices are going up, up, up, and I think for me this is also a way to mitigate that and have a backup option or hopefully not a backup option, but an option that tastes just as good as what we have today. Gervanti, I see a lot of you on your Instagram account, which is great. I feel like people want to associate uh the brand with the founder. They want to know about their backstory, uh, they want to know about how they're building the company. Uh, just in terms of your social, what's, what's resonating most? What's really getting the message across about your brand and what you're doing that's different? Yeah, I think founder-led marketing is what got me to this point. I started founder-led marketing before we launched the brand, so I was on the socials maybe 6 to 9 months before launching, and I think that really helped us establish early traction organically without paid media. I think, however, for the brand to grow beyond what I want it to be, I think it has to be more than just me doing the marketing. And so I'm really self-conscious of the fact that I can't, it can't just be my face on social media, or that is totally a valid strategy for the first like 3 to 6 months and then hopefully beyond this year just bringing in other people who want to talk about the bar, more social media presence that extends beyond that. I think that would be super great. Um, one thing I've noticed that has resonated is a lot of South Asian cultural references and just showing that we're not just making flavors that are South Asian inspired, but that we're really part of the culture and have our pulse on the culture that way. And so that's resonated, but of course want to make sure that we have marketing that appeals to everyone, not just South Asians. So again, very much an open-ended question for me, but something I'm thinking about. Yeah, I haven't watched the video that is titled Can Saffron Feel Special in a Protein Bar, but that really stood out to me because I'm like, that was a good one. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you saying that, and that is the perfect lead in for our special flavor that will be coming out very soon. OK, well, we almost let the cat out of the bag, but not entirely. You define differentiation, right? I mean, there are so many new protein bars coming to market, but yours is truly different. And I commend you on that, and I think there's a great runway for you and for the brand, and I'm just really excited. But please, if you can, if you need anything, if you need any help with building your company, um, I always point this out on Elevator Talk, you know, part of our job is is the journalistic side of what we do and talking about news and trends and innovation. The other part of it is community building, and we're here to support founders as they continue to scale. So if there's anything we can do to help, just let us know. Thank you so, so much to both of you for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. Thank you and hope to see you in San Francisco in a couple of weeks. Absolutely. Thank you. All right, great stuff. On to our next guest. That person is Joseph Chen. He's the founder and CEO of Joey Nordic Seed Crisps. Joey, it's great to see you again. Yeah, nice to see you and thanks for having me, and nice to meet you, Ken. Yeah, I met you at the Summer fancy food show, didn't I? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Uh, tell us all about what you do. For sure. Yeah. So Joey Nori Seacrest, um, is a certified organic, uh, certified gluten-free seed cracker. So we're made with 7 super seeds, including watermelon seeds, which is naturally high in 14 iron potassium. So each phase of the Joey cracker contains 22 g of 14 and 13 g of fiber and no seed oil. And what differentiate us, so we featured the economy inspire like premium seasoning. So like our Um, classic signature flavors of saffron and pink salt, rosemary, black pepper, and black truffle. And this year we just launched our gastronomy inspired flavors. They're the nori tamari, Peri Peri, sma, and blue salt. Ken, uh, I'm trying to remember where I saw, uh, Joey Organic, uh, Sea crisps. I think it was in the upper level of the fancy food show. Did you get a chance to try? I think, no, we were together actually when we visited their booth. So it was on the, yeah, um, it was on the down floor. Oh, OK. Well, I know, I know, I, I tried them and I'm glad that you. I think it was Startup CPG. Oh, OK. That's what it was. Yes. Well, clearly, uh, this is a brand that I remember because I, I, I reached out to Joseph about, uh, joining us on the show, and clearly it's a, it's a brand that you remembered as well, Ken. Um, what, what's your experience with this? I mean, again, for me, this is, this is a product or a line of products that I, I was just surprised to see anything like this because it is, it is very new to me. It feels very innovative. Mhm. So actually, because I also know, I also know the Turkish market, we have a little bit similar products but not in this flavor profile. So actually this is a really innovative product if you ask me. We could also to that and I think it's a really good product for next generation fiber trend because this is what you know the flora bar betting on is like different, different kind of fibers in a single product that Serve your gut health in a good way. So it's like a rainbow diet, and I think this product also fits into that trend. And my question is that like Joseph, do you any like communicate on this like having different fiber sources in just one product that's also giving you protein? We don't really like overly communicate in terms of the fiber benefit, but which we, we should because I, you know, all the fiber that we, uh, that's in the cracker is all naturally occurring from the seeds. Um, yeah, so it's definitely something that we're looking to communicate more because we've been focusing so much on the porting side, the porting benefits, um, but there's also the fiber component where we need to like talk about it a bit more in our, um, communication. Um, on the packaging side, I feel like it's a seed crease, but you also have like no seed oil. I know the difference, but does this like any confusion in the consumers? Do you have any feedback on that? It's interesting that we have not received, like from a consumer perspective, but we have one distributor who mentioned to us, like he was a bit confused, like, oh, you guys have seeds, but then there's like no COO like, so we have to sort of like just educate him a bit more about that. Um, but so far, like, you know, like we have, we purposely like really intentionally like, uh, money producing this product without any COO because we know that in terms of like, And also actually like, um, we also receive feedback from some retailer in terms of what they're looking for, what's important to them. Um, there's one retailer that we work with, we actually do privately both of them, and then like, they actually work with us to really like uh fine tune our um recipe and that's why like we, um, we decide to make sure that when we're producing this product it's COO free. You're a Canadian brand, um, and you are making your way to the United States. According to my notes, uh, you'll be expanding nationally in the US in October. Um, can you tell us more about that? Yes. Yeah. So we have started, um, so last year we start entering the US through a retailer we've been working with, uh, for their private label business, and then this year is actually our very first year in January. Uh, so reaching out to the different like distributors and also retailers here in the US, um, our primary focus right now. It's really like, um, expanding in the Southern California or the whole California and also in the New York area. So in New York we're like pop grocery, um, have your grocery, and then like, um, like Union Market, um, and then like in California, we're just started, uh, we just landed with a Mother's Market. Uh, Woodlands market here like in the Bay Area. Uh, we just got to know about the, uh, the launch with Sprouts, uh, for the forager program like in, um, November. So just gradually like just in terms of like, um, start working with, um, yeah, good distributors and also a retailer in terms of the retail expansion, uh, here in the US. And where in store, where in store do you see the brand being merchandis? Is it with other snacks? Is it with crackers? Is it with nuts, seeds? Yeah, so it's interesting you, um, bring that up. I would say like 90% of the time, um, retailer, they merchandise us in the cracker section. Um, so we do have like, um, some retailers put us into like there's a lot of functional snacking area, so that will include a lot more like, um, you know, like seaweed or like a trail mix. So that's a mixed bag of different type of, uh, salty snacks. Um, we also have like uh retail actually merchandise as in sort of the, the seeds and nuts area, but that's very, very rare. Uh, I would say, yeah, 90% is in the cracker section. I, I would assume so. It feels like it is kind of a cracker brand or the the use case feels like it would be that of a cracker, um, but then, you know, I don't see why you wouldn't just snack on it almost as an alternative to a potato chip. Uh, Ken, what, what would be your advice in terms of sort of positioning and talking to American retailers about how consumers see this product and see the brand? Mhm. So I think the flavors are the hit in here, but I would like to ask first, like which flavors actually really sell, uh, for the consumer, because like you have almost 1060 right now, like saffron and pink salt, rosemary, black pepper, black truffle, nori and tamari, peri-peri and sumak can produce salt. And it can read as like Asian flavors at the same time a little bit Middle Eastern flavors, so which one resonates more with the US consumer? Oh yeah. So our number one seller is the saffron and pink salt. So that's our sort of the uh most like multi basic and also like more approachable. So in terms of like flavor profile standpoint, um, for, with some retailers like, like the black truffle is actually like the number one seller. Yeah, for like, yeah, so for one more like the uh upscale type of uh retailer, um, yeah, so that was the, that's the number one. Um, we're seeing like a lot of interest, uh, in the US, um, the peri-peri flavor, um, and also like the summa and B salt. I saw these two are also two other flavors that are also getting really great traction. Um, but our number 2 seller is a rosemary black pepper. So, I still feel like consumers are gravitating towards a bit more like a more approachable, uh, type of flavor profile. Um, yeah, so saffron pink salt and then like the rosemary black pepper are the the two top ones. You can't go wrong with either. They're both fantastic. Um, and then somehow the black truffle, I mean, that's just the cherry on top. Uh, Jöey, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us on Elevator Talk today. I'm so excited for the future of Joey in the United States. It seems like you've already had a great start in Canada. Um, the US market obviously a little different, but when you have a product like yours, uh, success should follow pretty quickly. Oh, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, thank you, and please, please stay in touch. Michelle, thank you. On to our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk, we have Carlos Santos, who is the founder of Nada's Empanadas. Carlos, it's great to see you again. Hey,

Speaker 2 [49:16] Ray, how are you, my friend? Good to see you.

Ray Latif [49:18] Absolutely. Uh, you and I met at the Summer fancy food show, and I just love what you're doing. Um, thank you. I already let the cat out of the bag with empanadas, so it's pretty clear what you do, but what makes Nada's different?

Speaker 2 [49:33] Yeah man, well, number one, I think the really cool thing is that obviously we're filling a white space in the frozen section, being that the frozen section has been for the majority, as long as I've been alive, kind of boring, right? People go to the frozen section as a secondary option, tertiary option. Well, hey, we have a restaurant quality empanada that's corn-based Colombian style that immediately addresses, an overprocessed, underwhelming, and wheat focused section of the supermarket. I'm not going to say, listen, that we're going to be The frozen sections because God knows it we'll sell for that much, but we like to believe that players like them, like my dozen cousins like Tia Lupita, have taken the same premise of better for you ethnic, mostly Hispanic foods, working across all demographics, and that's what we're doing, man. But we started from my mom's restaurant that was open for 20 years, a little bit outside of New York City, New York Times, right, and we took that exact same product and we're just trying to bring it from our home, our hearts straight to people's freezers.

Ray Latif [50:33] And they are delicious. They're also differentiated because according to my notes here, they're Colombian style empanadas. What, what makes a Colombian style empanada?

Speaker 2 [50:42] Yeah man, I'm not trying to start a South American war here, but, but I think what is interesting is a lot of people know empanadas to be either the Argentine, the Chile, and kind of that South Southern empanads made with wheat. Right, so they, they make them, they bake them, they're wheat focused, but as we've seen in America, hey, 18% of the population right now has either gluten-free, is either gluten-free, they're celiac, or they're gluten insensitive. And so we're trying to bring our empanadas that are corn-based into the market to kind of rival what's been known to be an empanada and what I have known to be an empanada my entire life.

Ray Latif [51:22] The other part of this, and I want to get to, to Ken, but you call out the protein count on each of your products. Um, that, that is not necessarily something I've seen with empanadasia. I think usually you're eating them for pleasure, for just nourishment. Um, why did you feel like you needed to call it the protein?

Speaker 2 [51:42] Yeah man, I mean, I think protein is having a moment obviously, and I think that that's something that people like to know, right? They like to understand the macros and micros of how they're eating themselves. For us it's kind of showcasing that listen, we have all the bells and whistles of every trend, but we're still an inherently cultural product, right? It's something that Colombians have been eating their whole lives. What we make is just an elevated version of what I've been eating my entire life. Even from the colors, right, that we have, that's the call the attention for families. It's to force kids to eat cheese and spinach even though the spinach may be tricked onto them because they say, they say it's hulk cheese. But all that we're doing is that, hey, we're taking a product that Colombians have grown up with our entire lives and we're displaying it in a new manner for consumers. And so that's all that we're trying to do. Obviously, hey, if you're gonna have 3 empanadas and feel like you Have your protein filling right there, amazing, but for us it's more about showcasing that these traditional products and cuisines can fit into for everybody's diet and category.

Ray Latif [52:46] Ken, is there a Turkish version of an empanada? I don't know. I like, I don't want to start anything, start anything up with Carlos, but uh anyway, yeah, it, it, yeah, we have a version with cracked bull cracked wheat, and we have the same fillings almost like we mostly use beef, but I think the way Carlos like approached the fillings is much more diverse and creative if you ask me. And on that actually I wanted to ask something about the production because you're now working with the coal manufacturer at the same time and you stated that Uh, you need to teach a machine to have to do the same thing. How was that process like commercializing process, because I think that was must have been the, uh, hardest part.

Speaker 2 [53:27] Yeah, I mean, I think, um, you know, we went from doing When we started the empanada kind of journey from my mom's restaurant, I went from doing like a couple 100 a week to then during the pandemic starting to do thousands to now doing tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. And what's been cool in that trajectory is that we, we've always been able to figure out that next step. And so with the co-manual I was like, OK, we've been doing this this way. Here's these recipes. Now let's just figure it out together, right? Even though we've had to incorporate more machines and obviously it's, it's less manual labor than it used to. There's a certain standard, mostly when you're using the ingredients that we use that we know because we made because we made the product so many times, we know what the output should look like regardless of whether it's with machines or whether we're needing the dough. So I think just figuring out, you know, things like humidity and water and at that scale was, was the biggest thing, right? Doing a couple of runs, paying for those runs. Until it got to the standard that we needed it to be, but I think that once you've made it, by the time that we got into CPG, we had sold close to 700,000 empanadas in different venues from obviously our own storefronts and stadiums and pop-ups and in the rain, the snow, and the sun, so we already knew the quality that we needed to get to. It was more just about figuring out and tinkering with the process.

Ray Latif [54:52] Carlos, uh, not as recently launched into the northeast region of Whole Foods. Congratulations on that. What's been that, what's that experience been like for you?

Speaker 2 [55:02] Yeah, man, it's been really cool. I think um. You know, obviously we've only been in the CPG market. We launched in January. We launched ourselves in January, so we've been learning, you know, while we, while we fly the plane, we're building it, and so it's been cool to figure out obviously what velocities look like. I think one of the big things is, OK, now that we're building a brand, what does our marketing look like, right? Our strategy obviously changes to focus on our three core demographics our house makers, our second generation. Immigrants and then obviously people with dietary restrictions. So figuring out how we can fully grasp everybody and funnel them into all their stores has been really fun and just hearing the feedback, right? We have customers that have known us for 20 years since my mom had a restaurant and have been eating these products and can attest that the quality is the same when they make it at home, and I think that's the most rewarding part.

Ray Latif [55:56] What's the price point per package?

Speaker 2 [55:58] So we're $999. Um, we, we had to get under $10 because that's what our distributors told us. Um, so we, you know, we, we were able to reformulate size and, and get down under the $10 mark. And so we're $999. We're actually cheaper than all our competitors in Whole Foods by ounceage, which is fun to say, even though every consumer doesn't fully understand that we do.

Ray Latif [56:20] And you're clean labeled throughout, correct? I mean, even though you have this rainbow array of empanadas, there's like this really bright red that's that's wrapping your beef and potato empanada. Everything is clean label, correct?

Speaker 2 [56:34] Yeah, everything is clean label. So yeah, it's one of the things that we hear most from parents, right? They want something that's easy. They want something that they can trust, and they want something that their kids are going to like, right? And I think that we hit all three categories. We're easy to make you pop them in the oven or the air fryer. We're fully clean labels, so like you said, we don't really have parents don't really have to worry about that kind of stuff. All the colors are naturally derived from vegetables. And then what was the third thing I said? Jeez, uh. Um, but yeah, and yeah, we're, we're really easy to enjoy. So yeah, I think like it's really cool. It's been really awesome to launch a product that's clean label and that people are enjoying.

Ray Latif [57:10] Yeah, on that front, Ken, how much would you highlight the fact that these products are clean label on the website, on the Nada's website, it does highlight that the products are clean label, no BS, but do you feel like that is something that belongs in front of pack? I think it would be really great to highlight that because you're coming from the restaurant world actually your packaging also uh really aligns in line with your prior restaurant, and people know that you came from that background, and you know how to cook, you know how to nourish people, and they were really um I'm trying to find the word. I'm so sorry. They're really aligned with your positioning actually. So I'd love to see something like that because when you, even though it's frozen, when you take it, take the ingredient list, most of the frozen products right now, you'll see a lot of preservatives even though it's frozen. So this, I think you're a differentiator in this category. Yeah, I would 100% agree. I mean, your, your packaging on its own, it's sort of minimalist and looks beautiful. Even the logo that you use for Nadas just feels very straightforward. I almost wonder if in your next iteration, if you decide to iterate on your packaging, knowing that you are clean labeled, no BS, as you point out on your website. feels like it's something that would resonate with consumers, especially in the frozen food aisle when you do see, as Can pointed out, a lot of preservatives, so.

Speaker 2 [58:42] Yeah, that's a really good call out. I think obviously, you know, we're we're small batching some of these, uh, some of our packaging right now. So once, once we get into the larger ones, we'll, I think this is an awesome, awesome point and call out for sure.

Ray Latif [58:55] Yeah, well, one thing that I didn't call out earlier is how delicious your products are. Everyone got to try some at the fancy food show and just the, the, the delicious and wonderful aromas that were coming from your booth. I feel like we're drawing so many people in and a good way to get people to try your products. Uh, Carla, yeah, thank you so much for what you do. Thanks so much for being with us on Elevator Talk today. Excited to see where the brand goes from here. And we want to know where the brain goes from here. Please stay in touch. Let us know about any new retail, distribution, what have you.

Speaker 2 [59:32] Thank you guys so much. Appreciate y'all.

Ray Latif [59:34] Thank you, Carlo. Well, as advertised, can, a great group of founders and a great group of brands, and as I noted, I think before we hopped on the mics, I am going to be, I am very, very hungry, and I can't wait to eat lunch because everything that we saw today just makes your mouth water, and that's really where it starts, right? If you have great taste, you have a great foundation for growth. And the story can help tell itself from there. If you don't start with great flavor, great taste, great ingredients, it's kind of harder to build a business. But I really thought that this was a great group, as I mentioned, and I thought you were a great co-host today. Thanks so much for taking the time. For folks who want to get in touch with you and the team at Chapter Foods, what's the best way to do so? I think the best way is LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn really easily, and you can reach out to me at kennethchapterfoods.com. Anything related to ingredients or candies, let me know. Gorgeous perspective on the food and beverage industry, of which you have a great one. Yes, thank you. Thank you again and thanks so much to all our entrepreneurs who joined us today. Thanks to everyone watching or listening, and thanks to our amazing team at Bevnet, Nash and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone. I'm Ray Latif and we'll talk to you next time.